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  • Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

    Gentlemen,
    especially those coming in the MSG Company, there has been some discussion about uniforms and arms for the Missouri State Guard for the event and want to put a primary emphasis on the following;
    1- Need to emphasize mostly .69's for the company
    2- clothing for the MSG needs to primarily be white (appler) uniforms. If that you are not able to get that by the event, then civilian attire is perfectly acceptable.

    The changed to the guidelines come from accounts that Frank Aufmuth and the ranger, Steve Black, have as recorded. The white (appler) uniforms were taken from Albert Pikes Indian Forces.

    These will be updated on the webpage but want to get that out there so you know about it as soon as possible.

    Art Milbert
    [FONT=Georgia]Art Milbert[/FONT][SIZE=1][/SIZE]

  • #2
    Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

    I realize there was discussion on this subject and some wanted to wear Appler style jackets. However, I have a few reservations about making this change.

    It seems pretty close to the event to change the uniform guidelines. Plus, for many of us that do not have this kind of jacket, it will be very difficult to obtain one in time for the event. I, for one, do not know where to start to obtain one if I had a mind to.

    I also wonder if changing these guidelines will make us compromise authenticity in the long run. Would it be better to have a company all attired in civilian dress or a company with a mix of undyed jackets and civilian dress?

    I propose that having the mix of jackets and civilian dress will make for a less than authentic impression.

    James Harding who served as quartermaster general for the State Guard states in his memoirs, "Service with the Missouri State Guard" that it was Rives and Burbridge's regiments, part of the 1st Missouri Brigade, that were issued these jackets at their camp on Cove Creek prior to Pea Ridge. These were not the only State Guard regiments at Pea Ridge. What were Slack's men wearing? Or Frost's? Or Rain's or Green's?

    Point being, there were more State Guard troops than just the 1st. MO Brigade at Pea Ridge and I don't recall anyone saying we were to portray a specific Missouri State Guard unit.

    So, are we to portray a company where everyone is wearing those jackets? It seems to me that if you go with that piece of clothing, then everyone should be wearing them and the proper accoutrements to make an authentic appearance. If we can't meet that, then should we not all be in civilian clothing? Would that not be a more authentic appearance?

    I can see going with the jackets if that were put in the guidelines with enough lead time for people to obtain them if they wanted to do that impression but changing them 6 or 7 weeks out doesn't allow for that.

    I don't have a problem with the jackets if that is the decision made. I'll show up in my civilian kit and it won't bother me at all to be in line next to fellows with those jackets because I think those jackets probably look pretty neat. I just wonder if we are doing a disservice to others and, at the same time, compromising our authenticity.

    Just the musings of some guy with nothing else to do on a Friday night.
    Michael Comer
    one of the moderator guys

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

      Mike and all

      First, relax because nothing has really changed. New thoughts have come out regarding the MSG. All I'm asking you to do is consider the information and let your conscience, beliefs, and knowledge guide your impression. Nobody is required to have an Appler coat

      This may come as a shock to some of you but sometimes established historical thought is thrown out and suddenly changes when new information comes out. If this informaton was not shared that would truly be unauthentic. While this discussion may lack the well founded documentation of other impressions, what we do have is, at best, sketchy. Quite honestly I have been confounded for years about what the MSG looked like at Pea Ridge and so I broached the subject with Steve Black at Pea Ridge. As a Seasonal Park Ranger for the NPS I have a high level of respect for the staff at Pea Ridge, most especially Mr. Black and it is partly this reason that I am passing on the following:

      There are presently two schools of thought about the MSG clothing at Pea Ridge. One believes is that the MSG pretty much looked the same as they did at Wison's Creek. The other believes that they were issued the undyed wool uniforms (white) that were taken from Albert Pike's Indian forces.

      The problem is there is no conclusive evidence for either. Anyone that claims to have full knowledge and understanding of the MSG equipage is probably lying. If there be better knowledge out there let them come forward with the documentation. This is based on the best that I have been able to find and comes from the best conjecture of what the professionals have come up with. Therefore, if the best minds on the subject are debating civilian vs. white uniforms, its hard to compromise authenticity when secondary evidence supports both.

      For those of you not as well versed it has been generally believed that only the Missouri Confederates got white uniforms just prior to Pea Ridge:

      "Our regiment was uniformed here; the cloth was of rough and coarse texture, and the cutting and style would have produced a sensation in fashionable circles: the stuff was white, never having been colored, with the exception of a small quantity of dirt and a goodly supply of grease-the wool had not been purified by any application of water since it was taken from the back of the sheep. In pulling off and putting on the clothes, the olfactories were constantly exercised with a strong odor of that animal....Our clothes , however, were strong and serviceable if we did look and feel somewhat sheepish in them."
      -Ephraim Anderson
      2nd Missouri CSA

      Where Missouri is concerned there were three armies at Pea Ridge. The Federal, the Confederates, and the Missouri State Guard. There is a difference between the Confederates and the MSG. They have the same enemy but one was fighting for the CSA and the other for the State of Missouri. There are reasons why the remaining members of the MSG refused to join Confederate Service. Some of us believe the clothing may have been an inticement to get the MSG men to go over to the Confederate Camp. There seems to be little to back this up.

      So, on this account don't think of it as "the guidelines" are changing." Rather think of it as they are being expanded for both schools of thought.

      If the guidelines should change at all it should be the weapons. It is basic knowledge that the MSG had acquired weapons and in this area was much different than the indifferently armed MSG that fought the early war battles of Wilson's Creek and Athens. Archaeological evidence at Pea Ridge supports .69 cal. Muskets. in Steve Black's words:

      "True, some people here were using flintlock muskets but
      they were M-1816's or M-1822 or M-1835. The MSG went on a huge buying spree in the fall of 61 and winter of 62 and bought all kinds of weapons and
      accoutrements and the end result of that was the army the Price fielded
      here."


      Based on this, a '16, flint, conversion, or '42 should be preferable over a squirrel rifle. The park would like to see us with pre-1861 weapons. Irregardless, for those of you that have nothing else, the civilian rifle or shotgun will get no flak from me (but a 12 guage shotgun can fire .69 balls.)

      As mentioned earlier, not sharing these thoughts and information would be a true compromise of Authenticity. Now that it's out there feel free to do what you think is best.

      As for me, I'm an officer, and will be dusting off the old militia tailcoat.

      Maybe now we can discuss the use of knapsacks and haversacks among the Missourians. Anyone???
      Frank Aufmuth
      Frank Aufmuth
      When you hear my whistle, Hell will be upon you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

        Originally posted by huntdaw View Post
        It seems pretty close to the event to change the uniform guidelines. Plus, for many of us that do not have this kind of jacket, it will be very difficult to obtain one in time for the event. I, for one, do not know where to start to obtain one if I had a mind to.
        Sir, in an interest to help with this particular question... Rob Wiseman, here on the forum, is a good person to get in touch with about the white MSG jackets. Hope this helps.
        Matthew S. Laird
        [email]CampMcCulloch@gmail.com[/email]
        [COLOR="DarkRed"]Rogers Lodge #460 F&AM

        Cane Hill College Mess, Company H, McRae's Arkansas Infantry
        Auxiliary, New Madrid Guards Mess
        [/COLOR]
        [I]"An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. "[/I] Thomas Jefferson

        [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

          Another account mentions that these jackets had large wood buttons and when worn with black accouterments, the coats displayed nicely. Also, Anderson mentions the issue of "cartridge boxes and belts with CS on them," which were likely the rope border CS pattern.
          Bob Williams
          26th North Carolina Troops
          Blogsite: http://26nc.org/blog/

          As [one of our cavalry] passed by, the general halted him and inquired "what part of the army he belonged to." "I don't belong to the army, I belong to the cavalry." "That's a fact," says [the general], "you can pass on." Silas Grisamore, 18th Louisiana

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

            Mike,
            I appreciate your thoughts on this and you express a very real concern about the impression. No worries though, the civilian attire will be fine and is accurate. Additional information has surfaced and wanted to put it out there. Me putting it at the top of the list 7 weeks before probably not a good call on my part in making it most desired.

            Art Milbert
            [FONT=Georgia]Art Milbert[/FONT][SIZE=1][/SIZE]

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

              If I can add something to the excellent historical information already presented (by Mr. Comer, Mr. Williams, Tom Arliskis, Chris Houk, just to name a few) in this discussion.

              Like many unit presentations in the living history arena, portraying the Missouri State Guard is a specialty impression. As with other impressions, to do it accurately involves conducting extensive research. But it is also unlike other unit impressions in several ways, offering many unique and frustrating challenges.

              The Missouri State Guard was an enigmatic organization. Called into service following the Camp Jackson affair and the civil strife that followed, the Guard was organized largely “on the run.” As such it lacked a centralized location for training and equipping an army. The most logical place to conduct such efforts, the state capitol in Jefferson City, was taken in June by Federal forces. This loss also had another undesired effect: there was no central repository for army documents. Thus the majority of morning reports, ordnance returns, requisitions, and the myriad of forms and paperwork accompanied the army as it steadily traversed the countryside just ahead of an ever advancing enemy, to be destroyed, lost, or recycled as cartridge papers.

              Lacking an effective quartermaster system the State Guard army became self-sustaining, living of the land. In turn its soldiers laid aside their arms and performed as farmers, millers, herdsmen, butchers, bakers & cooks, lead miners, armorers & artificers, blacksmiths, tinsmiths, and tailors.

              As the Federal army advanced across Missouri the State Guardsmen increasingly found their homes and families behind “enemy lines.” Documenting their service through letters was a risky endeavor; first the bearer had to traverse enemy-held territory to deliver the missives, and then the presence of such proof of treasonous activities, if found, often meant fines and/or imprisonment for the recipients. Of the letters that were sent few seem to have survived, or may yet lay undiscovered, further limiting our knowledge of this group.

              In the same vein there are few “letters to the editor” from soldiers in the field, who wished to keep their friends and neighbors apprised of their activities through their local newspaper. First, the letters had to get to the editor; second, the editor had to decide if printing such a letter was worth the seizure of his press and imprisonment.

              I have seen only two images of State Guardsmen identified to specific individuals and specific dates, so photographic documentation offers little guidance.

              Another reason for the dearth of information is the relative short existence of the Missouri State Guard. Men originally enlisted for just a few months, and the bulk of the army existed less than a year. Those who entered Confederate service spent three years fighting and dying far from Missouri; of course those who died wrote no post-war reminiscences- those who survived often placed greater narrative effort in their accounts of “real” battles in Mississippi and Tennessee. Those who returned to their homes found themselves subject to arrest and imprisonment; in addition they were expected to enlist in Federal service as state militia. Little blame can be applied to them for failing to publicize their State Guard service.

              In the nearly twenty years I have researched the Missouri State Guard I have been both elated and frustrated by the information found. I will qualify my work as “in progress.” I have tended to concentrate on the period of June to September 1861, so the period between the victory at Lexington and the Battle of Pea Ridge is a new arena. The information presented here covers roughly a 6 month period, from November 1861 to April 1862, and comes from Northern and Southern eyewitness accounts, participant journals and post-war reminiscences, and newspaper articles. What follows is not meant to be a definitive treatise on the Missouri State Guard at Pea Ridge; rather it should be seen as a springboard for further research and discussion. I along are responsible for the content and the many mistake in punctuation and grammar.

              One interesting, and quite rare, account of Missouri State Guard service at Pea Ridge comes from a letter written by an anonymous member of the 6th Infantry, 8th Division, Missouri State Guard, seventeen days after the battle to his cousin in Virginia, in which he states the following:

              1) When Price’s army abandoned Springfield their train was 9 miles long, and included “all our supplies from the South yet undistributed, besides a heavy train which had just arrived the day we left [12 February.]

              2) His regiment was issued thirty rounds per man. He alludes they had Mississippi rifles, and several times mentions “fixing bayonets.” As some of the M1841 rifles taken from the Missouri Depot in Liberty, Missouri, in April 1861 ended up in the hands of Guardsmen in Jackson County (part of Rains’ Eighth Division area) the author may have been thus armed.

              3) On the march south to Arkansas he and his fellow soldiers bivouacked without tents or blankets. They suffered much from the ice and cold dressed in their “light clothes.”

              4) They received 3 days rations on 2 March and were ordered to cook them in preparation of moving on the Federal army.

              5) Once he finished these rations (on the 5th) he had nothing but “a little raw corn I snatched from the horses” until after the battle, two days later.

              One word of caution with this account- given that the author writes with such a dramatic style, quoting poetry and making grand flowery statements, and since it is written to a female relative, I take with a grain of salt such statements as "bayonets were fixed… for the wild death dance would soon begin" and "we charged with fixed bayonets." Maybe his regiment had them, and then again maybe such statements were made to improve his literary drama.

              I will say his statements about the lack of tents and blankets, and rations are echoes by men in Price’s Missouri Brigade, notably in Rives’ regiment. Their reprieve from hunger came when they overran the federal sutlers’ stores at the Elkhorn Tavern. This feast, however, was not enjoyed by most of the men of the Missouri State Guard (except perhaps Greene’s Second Division), as the bulk of the Guard forces were posted further east in the area of Clemons’ field.

              In order to make a more rapid march upon the enemy Van Dorn ordered that his men carry only their weapons, 40 rounds of ammunition, three days rations, and a single blanket. The immense supply train of the Army of the West was left near Camp Stephens, along with all tents, bedding, extra clothing, mess, and camp equipage. In addition, due to a mistake in orders, the ordnance train which was to accompany the army took the wrong course and never arrived. Price’s men would fight the entire two day battle with their initial 40 rounds, supplemented by what ammunition they could scavenge from the enemy casualties.

              Despite its efforts to secede in October 1861, the fate of Missouri was given little importance by the Confederate government. Perhaps due to its precarious position, surrounded by Union states and occupied by Federal forces, or perhaps as a result of the growing enmity between Jefferson Davis and Sterling Price, little support in the form of arms, uniforms, or equipage was forthcoming from Richmond. What is certain is the Confederate government had little to give, and had greater priorities in the hierarchy of recipients.

              State money appropriated to purchase such supplies was spent to purchase goods in Memphis and New Orleans, the first of which began to arrive in Missouri in the fall of 1861.

              Peter D. Lane was another State Guard private serving with Rains’ Division. He recalls that Price received “500 muskets and a couple of batteries of new cannon (of 3 or 4 pieces each) together with a considerable lot of other munitions of war” while at Cassville, Missouri, in late October and early November 1861. Lane makes few comments about the retreat from Missouri before Pea Ridge, other than how the cold weather, snow, and ice caused great hardships among his fellow soldiers. In Arkansas the cold weather caused several deaths from exposure. Unfortunately for us Lane was detailed to guard prisoners in Bentonville, Arkansas and was not an eyewitness to the Battle of Pea Ridge.

              Private Griffin Frost of A Company, 1st Infantry Battalion, Second Division, Missouri State Guard, recalled being in Springfield on 27 December 1861 and seeing some State Guard officers “busy distributing clothing. Our Division received five wagons, not yet given out to the men.” In January 1862 Frost, recently elected captain to command his company, observed his men “…in their tents, wrapped in blankets, or hovering around the fire trying to keep warm.” On 12 February Frost wrote that “some 80 or 90 wagons, loaded with clothing, arrived from the South, but before they could be distributed we heard the enemy were advancing upon us.” He further writes of his men continuing to have access to their tents and blankets through their retreat to Northern Arkansas. Unfortunately Frost fails to elaborate on his company’s actions at the Battle of Pea Ridge beyond a few uninformative lines.

              James Harding, quartermaster-general for the Missouri troops, contracted for medical supplies, arms, and ammunition in Memphis. He was disappointed when only two-thirds of his order (some 80 wagons) was delivered. Most of these supplies arrived in Springfield and were unloaded just hours before Curtis’ Army of the Southwest threatened that post. Harding expressed his pride that, despite the urgency to evacuate, only one keg of mule shoes was abandoned. He did, however, have to hastily distribute some supplies: a box containing 60 pair of trousers and a number of tents were given to members of Gates’ Missouri Cavalry regiment.

              Later Harding did oversee distribution of the uniforms and accouterments in the Missouri Camp at Cove Creek, Arkansas.
              Advantage was taken… to issue to the troops the clothing, blankets, etc., which had been so long in the wagons, and which there was great need… the jackets and pants were of white linsey, with big wooden buttons, with which Rives and Burbridge’s regiments were furnished… These clothes were real nigger clothing, but were warm, of good material, were uniform in color, and far preferable to no clothes at all. The black belts and equipments set of the linsey very nicely, and the regiment looked really well in their working clothes.

              As Harding notes, these uniforms went to Burbridge’s and Rives’ infantry regiments in the 1st Missouri Brigade and not to the Missouri State Guard units. Another source claims the supply was exhausted before all of Rives’ regiment could be uniformed, leaving their ranks with an incomplete appearance. Harding mentions no additional uniform issuance to any other Missouri troops.

              Several post-battle articles give some clues to how the Missouri troops appeared to eyewitnesses. A newspaper correspondent, in Springfield following the battle, commented on the appearance of some 3-400 rebel prisoners taken in the fight at Pea Ridge. “They were [ragamuffins] all without uniforms, clad in homespun, blue or butternut in color, with some of the oddest hats imaginable, of all sizes and shapes.”

              A second correspondent, this time in Rolla, Missouri, apparently saw the same groups of prisoners. Having marched from Springfield they were being loaded into cars to be entrained to St. Louis.

              Another detachment of our troops arrived yesterday with about 400 prisoners, captured at the battle of Pea Ridge… They were without uniforms, some of them barefooted; others, without coats; some of them with an old bag, a piece of carpet, or part of a bed quilt on their shoulders; others with broken hats; some with the linings of their pantaloons visible; generally with long hair and unshaven faces- a motley crew as ever was seen.

              As many of the prisoners were recognized by local citizens and refugees from Springfield it can be assumed they were part of Price’s Missouri army, and were identifiable as having been former neighbors of the witnesses or having made themselves known in the months they were encamped around that city.

              After Pea Ridge, Price’s army was broken up, with most of those in Confederate service following Price across the Mississippi River. Arguably these were his best-armed and equipped troops, having received arms, uniforms and equipment in February at Cove Creek. A correspondent of the Charleston, South Carolina Tri-Weekly Courier, viewing Price’s Missourians in Corinth only one month after Pea Ridge, commented on their appearance:

              Every man has come from his homestead fitted with the best and strongest that loving mothers, wives, and sisters could put upon him. And the spectacle presented as they are drawn up in line, whether for marching or inspection, necessarily forms an arabesque pattern of the most parti-colored crowd of people upon which human eyes ever rested. Some are in black- full citizens dress, with beaver hats and frock coats; some in homespun drab; some in grey, blue, and streaked; some in nothing but red shirts, pants, and big top boots; some attempt a display with the old fashioned militia uniforms of their forefathers… Their weapons are not less miscellaneous than their personal appearance. At first very few were armed with any thing but ordinary shot guns and rifles, and to an extent such is the case at present…

              Despite a partial issue of uniforms less than two months before, and despite the capture of thousands of stands of arms and accoutrements during the previous nine months, the best of Price’s army still appeared to this observer to be an army of citizens, with some military weapons, but still armed with civilian firearms.

              Continuing with the effect the captured arms may have had on the appearance of the Missouri State Guard are several more period accounts. In December a large force of State Guardsmen were captured in their winter quarters/assembly area along the Blackwater River near Milford, Missouri, on 19 December, 1861. One newspaper reported:

              The plunder brought into the city with the prisoners filled several cars. The most interesting portion is embraced in a lot of splendid shot guns, some four hundred in all. The [Federal soldiers] are of the opinion that it would be impossible in any section of the country to collect such an assortment of first class shot guns. Many of the weapons are recognized as worth from fifty to seventy-five dollars apiece.

              The Missouri State Guard did benefit from a number of military muskets and rifles obtained from the Arkansas state troops and from capture at Cole Camp, Neosho and Carthage, and Lexington. Several thousand weapons for an army variously reported as being 10,000 to 30,000 men, with a large number unarmed. After Wilson’s Creek and Lexington many of the Guardsmen reported left the ranks and returned to their homes. For some their six month term of enlistment was complete. For others, crops had to be brought in and families prepared for the coming winter. It was understood by the MSG command that these men would return to the ranks in time for the Spring offensive. Price had a hard enough time gathering forage and subsistence for those who stayed in the camps at Osceola and Springfield- at least he didn’t have to feed and cloth those who went back home. “Hundreds are leaving the army daily,” recalled Griffin Frost in December 1861, “[they] say they must go home before they enlist again.”

              Primary sources offer very little evidence regarding whether those who left took their weapon, or if every soldier who left could or would return. It is a little clearer that new recruits were expected to provide their own weapons and equipment, as stated by Sterling Price in December 1861:

              Come with supplies of clothing and with tents, if you can procure them. Come with your guns of any description that can be made to bring down a foe. If you have no arms, come without them, and we will supply you as far as that is possible. Bring cooking utensils and rations for a few weeks.

              From the time Price’s army took Springfield in August 1861 until just days before abandoning the town to Curtis’ advancing Federal forces in February 1862, representatives of the Missouri State Guard were actively collecting firearms from the civilians in Greene County for the expressed purpose of “arming the state troops.” The firearms taken were listed simply as rifles and shot guns, and receipts were issued for reimbursement in state script. Several dozen citizens, however, objected to the forced seizures and filed theft charges against the named and unnamed agents in criminal court, giving us a lasting account of these historical events.

              Reference to armaments in period newspapers are somewhat helpful; unfortunately they are too often nonspecific to exactly whose troops they refer. One post-battle account has victorious Federal soldiers gathering “muskets, clothing and shotguns… strewn along the woods,” while another boasts “thirteen cannons were taken, besides thousands of shotguns.” Slight more specific is this account, taken from the Cleveland Daily Herald: “Many of the Confederate arms were excellent, embracing Minnie rifles, Enfield muskets, and good United States muskets; but the greater portion were [sic] rifles and shot guns.” Captain Hickory Rogers, a Confederate Arkansawyer in charge of ordnance following the battle, remarked that the fighting was fierce, with “…a large portion of our troops being armed with common hunting rifles and shot guns.”

              A more direct account comes from LTC Francis Herron, commanding the 9th Iowa Infantry, who was wounded and captured by members of the Second Missouri Brigade at Elkhorn Tavern. Writing in April, just after his exchange, he said of his captors: “Two-thirds… were armed with muskets, many of them of the Springfield and Enfield patterns, and having saber bayonets. The balance had shot guns and country rifles, with usual variety.”

              I have not heard of the “two schools of thought” in regard to the State Guard receiving an issue of uniforms prior to the battle, or in fact at anytime during their existence, and I haven't seen the figure of "8,000" uniform sets being received by the Missourians. I would be most interested in seeing any documentation that may exist in these two areas.

              In my opinion a living history event at Pea Ridge would be best conducted choosing either a documented Missouri Brigade impression, or a documented State Guard impression. Having an amalgamation of men in uniforms, with muskets and accouterments, in the same company as men in citizen’s clothes with shotguns and hunting pouches, is somewhat nebulous and would not be as common a sight as the former or the latter. It would be a better for interpretive option to chose one or the other, or represent both in two entirely separate groups.

              One of the best living history events I have ever experienced was the 135th anniversary observance at Pea Ridge, where we represented Rives’ infantry at the Elkhorn Tavern. Participants were limited to one blanket and one hard cracker, with all tents, bedding, and cooking equipment excluded. No fires, either, in the 20 degree weather- all discomforts compounded by Van Dorn’s orders and experienced by the same men at the same place. No breakfast or dinner the next day (except for the single hard cracker), just a march up Rives’ avenue of attack up Tanyard Hollow to the Tavern, and conducting interpretive programs and firing demonstrations throughout the day. That afternoon we “overran” the sutlers’ tents and feasted on cured ham, soft bread, tins of preserved meats and fruits, desiccated vegetables, etc.; again, all documented to people, place and time.

              Of course, since this event is sponsored by the park staff for the benefit of their visitors it should, ultimately, reflect the interpretive goals of Pea Ridge National Military Park.

              V/R,
              Kip
              Kip Lindberg

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                Excellent post Mr. Lindberg, thank you.

                Having an amalgamation of men in uniforms, with muskets and accouterments, in the same company as men in citizen’s clothes with shotguns and hunting pouches, is somewhat nebulous and would not be as common a sight as the former or the latter.
                That was the point of my post and I think it is a valid one. If we are to go with white jackets, then we should portray one of the units that were issued these uniforms as much as possible and not just throw it in as an afterthought.

                Are we portraying part of the 1st Missouri Brigade or a unit of the MSG?

                Since I have a white jacket in progress now, I would hope to portray the 1st MO Brigade at this point from the purely selfish motive that if I'm paying for a coat I want to be able to wear it. But, from the historical standpoint, I think we need to portray one unit or the other.
                Michael Comer
                one of the moderator guys

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                  We'll I'll do the Monty Python routine where I stand up and immediately get shot down. And the poor guy that chooses "obvious cover" gets blown up.
                  Since I started the confusion I guess I ought to try and minimize it, For fear that I may end up with zouaves with camel hair fezzes and militant tie-dyed hippies in the ranks. (no offence intended toward the hippies)

                  The stuff that was posted earlier came from when I conferred with the people at Pea Ridge. This seems to be what they want to see. At that place clothing is still not fully understood for the same reasons Kip mentioned above. However, with the comments on weapons, that comes from archaeological findings and shouldn't be blown off.

                  Kip is probably the most knowledgeable person about the MSG and his post above is very helpful being that he is the best person that could have ever posted here. I highly suggest his articles in the book Sterling Price's Lieutenants.
                  Frank Aufmuth
                  Frank Aufmuth
                  When you hear my whistle, Hell will be upon you.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                    If you're coming as a Missourian to this one, let's get those registrations in. The event isn't that far away.
                    Michael Comer
                    one of the moderator guys

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                      All,

                      Here are a few more related accounts for Pea Ridge:

                      This description of the appearance of Price's men left behind in Springfield, February 1862 (incidentally, one of these would have been Frank James) comes from a correspondent of the Chicago Tribune 18 March 1862. This is the first post-Wilson's Creek reference I have found to distinctive insignia.
                      About four hundred of Price’s Missouri] sick were left in the Court House, in two churches and in a large hotel, which had been converted into hospitals. A green or red stripe sewn upon their sleeves (the mark of the beast) was the only indication of uniform about them. Otherwise they were the same miscellaneous copper-bottoms as all of Price’s horde of ‘beggars coming to town.’

                      The following is also from the Chicago Tribune 8 April 1862 and may be pertinent in that the 25th Illinois was engaged at the Elkhorn Tavern on the second day, facing Price's Missouri army:

                      Some of the boys were stripped of their clothing, boots, and valuables, and were returned with a secession outfit. Lieut. West of the Twenty-fifth Illinois, was robbed on the field of a gold watch; $250 in money, a good suit of clothes, and even his boots, and came into camp with a butternut suit, and copper-bottomed like a rebel of the first order.
                      As I come across additional sources for the appearance of Price's Missourians at Pea Ridge I will post them, too.

                      V/R,
                      Kip
                      Kip Lindberg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                        Originally posted by huntdaw View Post
                        If you're coming as a Missourian to this one, let's get those registrations in. The event isn't that far away.
                        I was looking at this thread, and it suddenly dawned on me, "I need to do this event."

                        I confess, I'm a better civilian than a soldier; several people around here can attest to that. But perhaps that's more appropriate in the MSG that elsewhere.

                        Should be good and cold this year- it always is for this event. But seeing all my old friends will compensate for the suffering!
                        Last edited by Old Cremona; 02-01-2008, 08:08 PM.
                        [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Carl Anderton[/FONT]

                        [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="2"]"A very good idea of the old style of playing may be formed by referring to the [I]Briggs Banjo Instructor."[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
                        [FONT="Palatino Linotype"][B]Albert Baur, Sgt., Co. A, 102nd Regiment, NY Volunteer Infantry.[/B][/FONT]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                          If I might just add,

                          Reading Kip Lindberg's post is such a treat. Sure hope to see you there, Kip!
                          Last edited by Old Cremona; 02-01-2008, 09:17 PM.
                          [FONT="Book Antiqua"]Carl Anderton[/FONT]

                          [FONT="Franklin Gothic Medium"][SIZE="2"]"A very good idea of the old style of playing may be formed by referring to the [I]Briggs Banjo Instructor."[/I][/SIZE][/FONT]
                          [FONT="Palatino Linotype"][B]Albert Baur, Sgt., Co. A, 102nd Regiment, NY Volunteer Infantry.[/B][/FONT]

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                          • #14
                            Real men join the Missouri State Guard

                            ...Well the events a month away and that's my pitch for any last minute registrations. (Including mine). The company is shaping up nicely.
                            Forward Missouri!
                            Frank Aufmuth
                            Frank Aufmuth
                            When you hear my whistle, Hell will be upon you.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Change for MSG for Pea Ridge

                              Hello MSG commanders,

                              I was curious as to how many you will have coming to the event so far, if you don't mind me asking. I have been bombarded with questions from friends and family here locally that are curious to know. Thanks.

                              R/S
                              Matthew S. Laird
                              [email]CampMcCulloch@gmail.com[/email]
                              [COLOR="DarkRed"]Rogers Lodge #460 F&AM

                              Cane Hill College Mess, Company H, McRae's Arkansas Infantry
                              Auxiliary, New Madrid Guards Mess
                              [/COLOR]
                              [I]"An association of men who will not quarrel with one another is a thing which has never yet existed, from the greatest confederacy of nations down to a town meeting or a vestry. "[/I] Thomas Jefferson

                              [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

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