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Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

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  • Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

    The Bummers 2009 event offers us a unique opportunity to use some of the more advanced weapons of the Civil War. It is well documented that many of Sherman’s Bummers went out of their way to get equipped with some of the best weapons they could find including Spencer and Henry Rifles. As a matter of fact several of the units being portrayed were selected largely because it was documented that they were armed with repeating weapons.

    While this chance and excuse to purchase a Spencer or a Henry sounds great on paper, many folks do not have one of these sitting in their closets and a new one is not cheap. A Spencer Rifle, which is being reproduced by Armisport, is currently running for between $1,300.00 and $1,500.00. Henry Rifles are going for $1,100.00 to $1,300.00. This is not cheap especially in this economy.

    Cost
    Matt Woodburn and I are working on a deal to make getting a Spencer or Henry a little easier on the wallet. We have worked out some reduced pricing if we buy in bulk. So here is the base pricing we have so far for each. This does not include shipping and any AFT transfer fees.

    • Spencer Rifle - $925.00 - must have at least 10 orders
    • Henry Rifle - $870.00 - no minimum order

    So if you want one of this fine weapons participating in this purchase would save you a couple of hundred dollars. Even with the savings this is still not cheap. Again we have come up with a couple of options to help folks out that want to have or use a repeater for Bummers. All money must be turned in by Aug 10, 2009 to ensure weapons can be delivered on time for the event.

    So which one to get?
    Well according to what I have found over 200,000 Spencer Rifles and Carbines were made and only 14,000 Henrys were produced. The Spencer was first used in combat in October of 1862 with the 1st Massachusetts Cavalry at a skirmish near Cumberland Maryland. The Army began to receive contract delivers in late December of 1862. The Army ordinance department only purchased 1.731 Henry Rifles. The remainders were all private purchases for individual units. Here are some links to more about these weapons:





    What is I can’t afford one?
    If you are like me you have a hard time saving money. If I have it I will spend it. So to help folks with similar leanings, Matt Woodburn has created an escrow account. All you have to do is send him a check for whatever amount you can afford and it will be deposited in the account for you allowing you to save the money over time. If for some reason you decide want your money back before the purchase of the weapons, whatever you have deposited will be returned to you in full. If you want to begin saving money in this escrow account just send checks or money orders made out to Matt Woodburn at:

    Matt Woodburn
    235 3rd Avenue South
    Franklin, Tn 37064

    Make sure to include what it is for (Bummers Spencer or Henry) and you contact info including email address so Matt can let you know when he receives the check. If you have any questions about the escrow account contact Matt at rmwoodburn@aol.com.

    We are also working on a special ammunition buy for these as well. Hopefully we will be able to post more information on that soon. We also have some details to work out on shipping and transfer fees with the ATF. Spencers and Henrys are considered modern weapons by the ATF. So there are a couple of issues that must be worked out since these must be shipped to someone with an FFL license.
    Last edited by trippcor; 01-27-2009, 09:39 PM. Reason: New price for Spencer Rifles.
    [FONT=Times New Roman][b]Tripp Corbin[/b][/FONT]
    [URL=http://www.westernindependentgrays.org/]Western Independent Grays[/URL]
    [URL=http://www.armoryguards.org/]Armory Guards[/url]

  • #2
    Tripp,

    Thanks for posting the information! As a VERY interested party I have a few questions that I think others may have as well.

    First off, I was aware of the Henry project but did not know that a Spencer rifle bulk buy was in the works. I'm attracted to the Spencer because of it's better reputation for more stopping power and its better versatility in CW impressions. Do you know if this weapon will be appropriate and accepted in Woodburn's company or is he looking for all the men to be armed with Henrys and then a different company will be armed with the Spencers?

    Secondly, I know that the Umberti Henry has a strong reputation for authenticity and is a top rate firearm, but can anyone comment on the Armi Sport Spencer? I have studied and worked with reproduction Sharps rifles for years and the Armi Sport model of the Sharps is not the most well-ranked reproduction, but I would love to hear some informed reviews about their Spencer before I consider plunking down the cash.

    Finally, can anyone say whether a C&R FFL license will allow either of these weapons to be shipped to the purchaser? I am certain that most folks would like to acclimate themselves with their rifles before arriving in Georgia, and as a person that is well-acquainted with breech loaders I'm not 100% confident that I could be proficient with a repeater if I received it the day before I was in action. As such, I would love to have it as soon as possible and wondered what the possibility for this would be.

    I am very excited about this project, and my hat is off to you and Matt for undertaking such an ambitious program. I know that it will require a lot of out-of-pocket money, but varied armament is certainly one thing I have thought lacking in our end of the hobby in the past, and it takes a lot of guts to approach something like this head on. Rest assured that my deposit check with be coming just as soon as I figure out which rifle I want!

    Thank you for any help/advice you (or anyone else) can offer. I appreciate all the time you folks have put into this and look forward to taking advantage of it!


    Best Regards,
    Dan Wambaugh
    Wambaugh, White, & Company
    www.wwandcompany.com
    517-303-3609
    Become our fan on Facebook by clicking HERE

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

      Dan,

      The answer to shipping these to a C&R is - NO. They do not fall into the category of a C&R firearm, these are Title I firearms requiring that they go to a dealer FFL.



      WHAT ARE CURIOS OR RELICS?

      As set out in the regulations (27 CFR 478.11), curios or relics include firearms which are of special interest to collectors by reason of some quality other than is associated with firearms intended for sporting use or as offensive or defensive weapons. To be recognized as curios or relics, firearms must fall within one of the following categories:
      1.) Firearms which were manufactured at least 50 years prior to the current date, but not including replicas thereof;
      2.) Firearms which are certified by the curator of a municipal, State, or Federal museum which exhibits firearms to be curios or relics of museum interest; and
      3.) Any other firearms which derive a substantial part of their monetary value from the fact that they are novel, rare, bizarre, or because of their association with some historical figure, period, or event. Proof of qualification of a particular firearm under this category may be established by evidence of present value and evidence that like firearms are not available except as collector’s items, or that the value of like firearms available in ordinary commercial channels is substantially less.




      If any one involved in this project has questions about ATF regulations I will be more than happy to assist you either in this thread or via PM. I have been an FFL dealer since 1983 and currently hold a Class III FFL/SOT. I work with the regs on a daily basis.
      Jim Kindred

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

        Dan,
        Those are some good questions. I will take a try at answering them.

        Do you know if this weapon will be appropriate and accepted in Woodburn's company or is he looking for all the men to be armed with Henrys and then a different company will be armed with the Spencers?
        Matt wants his party to be armed almost to the man with Henrys. The unit Mr. Craddock has choosen to attempt to portray, the 76th Indiana, was armed with Spencers. So that is the weapon perferred for that foraging party though Mr. Craddock said he is willing to allow Henrys or other breech loaders as well but spencers are the perferred weapon.

        Secondly, I know that the Umberti Henry has a strong reputation for authenticity and is a top rate firearm, but can anyone comment on the Armi Sport Spencer?
        I own an Armisport Spencer Carbine. It is like most reproductions it needs some work. I am not an expert by any means but the carbine is not bad. It needs the modern markings removed and such but it is reliable. The Rifle has one big glaring flaw. It comes with the Cavalry sling bar attached. This can be fixed without to much hassle if you have a tap and die set. I am sure there are a couple of folks that are more knowledgeable that can get into the exact details.
        Finally, can anyone say whether a C&R FFL license will allow either of these weapons to be shipped to the purchaser?
        See Jim's post above.

        Hope this helps.
        [FONT=Times New Roman][b]Tripp Corbin[/b][/FONT]
        [URL=http://www.westernindependentgrays.org/]Western Independent Grays[/URL]
        [URL=http://www.armoryguards.org/]Armory Guards[/url]

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

          When it comes to the markings on the either the Spencer or the Henry for God's sake do not remove or move the serial number. Under ATF regulations this constitutes a felony. These rifles put you in an entirely different legal ball game from muzzleloaders.

          P.11 para 922 (k)



          (k) It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to transport, ship, or receive, in interstate or foreign commerce, any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered, or to possess or receive any firearm which has had the importer's or manufacturer's serial number removed, obliterated, or altered and has, at any time, been shipped or transported in interstate or foreign commerce.
          Last edited by JimKindred; 01-09-2009, 12:03 PM.
          Jim Kindred

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

            Thanks guys! It never ceases to amaze me how fast questions can be answered on this forum.

            Luckily, there is a small mom and pop gun store about a block away from my house (yes folks, they do still exist but are getting to be an endangered species.) I will check to see if they will receive shipment of a firearm for a small fee.

            Thanks again and have a good one!


            Best,

            Dan
            Dan Wambaugh
            Wambaugh, White, & Company
            www.wwandcompany.com
            517-303-3609
            Become our fan on Facebook by clicking HERE

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

              You can find a dealer to transfer from this site:



              Most dealers around here in Illinois want $40.00 to $50.00 for a transfer.

              Brian Baird

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                Matt,

                I have no problems driving to Franklin to pick up my Henry when it arrives!! Just tell me when and where to pick it up at!

                Jordan Ricketts
                Jordan Ricketts

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                  Shop around for FFL transfer prices, $40 -50 is on the high side but unfortunately in IL about the norm. I normally charge $10 if none of my money is involved in the purchase such as on an auction or $20 if I have to front the money for a special order.

                  Long guns can be purchased by out of state residents from an FFL dealer with no problem unless it violates the state laws of the purchaser. Using Jordan as an example he would have no problem picking one of these up from a dealer in Franklin, TN.
                  Last edited by JimKindred; 01-09-2009, 12:04 PM.
                  Jim Kindred

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                    Any word on a Blakeslee cartridge box bully buy then or how the infantrymen who privately purchased these rifles carried their extra ammo/tubes?
                    Mark Krausz
                    William L. Campbell
                    Prodigal Sons Mess of Co. B 36th IL Inf.
                    Old Northwest Volunteers
                    Agents Campbell and Pelican's Military Goods

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                      Just so I understand...
                      The Spencers are rifles (aka "3-banders")?

                      Thanks, Fellers!
                      John Wickett
                      Former Carpetbagger
                      Administrator (We got rules here! Be Nice - Sign Your Name - No Farbisms)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                        We are talking about the Spencer Rifle not the Carbine for this effort. This is a three bander. Here is a link to Armisports website so you can see a picture and get more info. http://www.armisport.com/eng/dettagl...ttoFamiglia=44
                        [FONT=Times New Roman][b]Tripp Corbin[/b][/FONT]
                        [URL=http://www.westernindependentgrays.org/]Western Independent Grays[/URL]
                        [URL=http://www.armoryguards.org/]Armory Guards[/url]

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                          I also have two quick questions. Is there a reliable source of blank ammunition for the Spencers or Henrys, and did troops carry bayonets with their Spencers? I know that the Henry does not carry one, but as I recall, the Spencer could carry one. I know time, place, and unit matters on the bayonet question, but at least some idea one way or another would be nice.
                          Andrew Roscoe,
                          The Western Rifles - An Authentic Civil War mess in PA, MD, VA, NC, and SC
                          24th Michigan Volunteer Infantry
                          Old Northwest Volunteers

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                            Yes there are reliable sources from blanks for both. The Spencer 56-50 blanks are not cheap if you get the brass ones. There is a company here in the Atlanta area that makes a harden plastic blank cartiridge that works well. As I said we are working on putting together some sort of bulk buys for these as well. Due to the popularity of Wild West shooting, blanks for the Henry are easily availible. Matt already has a lead on this from a guy that makes blanks for Hollywood. He might even do the Spencer blanks.
                            Last edited by trippcor; 01-13-2009, 06:21 PM.
                            [FONT=Times New Roman][b]Tripp Corbin[/b][/FONT]
                            [URL=http://www.westernindependentgrays.org/]Western Independent Grays[/URL]
                            [URL=http://www.armoryguards.org/]Armory Guards[/url]

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Henry & Spencer WIG Sponsored Bummer Buy

                              Hey guys,

                              To answer some questions that have come up. I prefer Henry's in the company that Justin Runyon, Scott Busenbark and I are putting together, the 1st Missouri Engineers. If someone wants to carry a Spencer that's fine, but they'll need to buy one. I will only have Henry's availble for rental, and then only to those in my company. I can afford to spot one company, but not a battalion. And getting this quantity has some challenges as I learned from Jim Kindred a couple days ago. He's getting all the info for us to do this smoothly and legally. I should have that info next week.
                              Matt Woodburn
                              Retired Big Bug
                              WIG/GHTI
                              Hiram Lodge #7, F&AM, Franklin, TN
                              "There is a fine line between "hobby" and "mental illness."

                              Comment

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