Bummers Rules of Engagement

[North_State_Rambler]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

The last time I saw an event announcement that required folks to bring above 40 rounds was At High Tide (one of the more flagrant cases of false advertising I've experienced), a precedent that doth not bode well, at least not for me personally. Eighty rounds roughly equals a pound of powder per man. That's either one huge brew-up, a large loss of time and effort spent making rounds if the yankees get them or when they melt in the rain, and/or yet another burden to carry around that could easily be cut in half. We're already seeing attrition amongst the Federals that will probably end up with the Georgia forces outnumbering them, a scenario, when combined with insane amounts of ammo and the presence of known powder-burners, that equals a big game of "whack the blue-clad mole." I was hoping mostly for a nice walk in the woods, punctuated by some period-correct running away from heavily armed yankees, as well as some culinary treats courtesy of a thankful civilian populace. And rain, in epic amounts.

Some documentation could make this all better.

[508preach]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

I was hoping mostly for a nice walk in the woods, punctuated by some period-correct running away from heavily armed yankees, as well as some culinary treats courtesy of a thankful civilian populace. And rain, in epic amounts.

Some documentation could make this all better.

Yous in for a surprise.

[Michael Comer]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

These guys have been planning this for about 2 years now. I don't think they are throwing stuff out just to screw around with people or because they had a brain fart. My gut tells me there's a method at work here and a reason behind such things.

I say let's go with the guidelines and let's see what comes of it. Could be interesting.

[Benedict]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

I'm excited. To say the least.

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

We're already seeing attrition amongst the Federals that will probably end up with the Georgia forces outnumbering them, a scenario, when combined with insane amounts of ammo and the presence of known powder-burners, that equals a big game of "whack the blue-clad mole." I was hoping mostly for a nice walk in the woods, punctuated by some period-correct running away from heavily armed yankees, as well as some culinary treats courtesy of a thankful civilian populace. And rain, in epic amounts.

I will let my southern comrades respond to the number of rounds for the militia, but I wanted to address the issue of ratio and attrition since it has been raised.

We had 384 Federals sign up for the event and 141 Militia. We knew that there would be attrition - on both sides, but I seriously doubt that given those numbers, the militia will even come close to outnumbering the Federals regardless of what the attrition turns out to be.

We have crafted the ratio, rounds, etc. based on two years of researching history and taking into account the amount of land, number of citizens, etc. I think you might be putting too fine a point on it Will. As we have repeatedly stated, we aren't not looking for a shoot-'em-up. That isn't how things are designed. There is no winning and losing at this event. That isn't the point.

Everything we are doing is done to maximize the scenario we have put together. We can go into the rationale after the event, because at this point, all we want to accomplish is to make sure all attendees have a general idea of what is going to happen and know what to bring to the event and what times they need to be there.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

And rain, in epic amounts.

Oh you jinxer... you had to say that.

On another note, for us boys with fancy repeaters you load on Sunday and shoot all week: 40 rounds ain't gonna go far if we are shooting a repeating rifle. Save your ammo ya'll...

All the best- Johnny Lloyd :wink_smil

[PieBoy96]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

Eric,

In the Word doc version of the rules it states:

Surrendering - If faced with superior numbers, and cornered, lay down your arms and surrender to the opposition.

No Prisoner Exchanges - If someone is captured then they are a prisoner for the duration of the event. There will be no prisoner exchanges, but prisoners are encouraged to escape if the opportunity arises.

How will weapons be handled if captured? I'm asking this from both the viewpoint of a prisoner and the person doing the capturing. If I was a prisoner and make a run for it, what will happen to my weapon? Likewise, I want to do the appropriate thing with a weapon if I capture someone else.

We had one fellow lose his musket because of this very subject one time.


ALSO.... I can't seem to re-find this info, what should the NCO structure be like for Federal foraging parties? I seem to remember one officer (rank?), one Sgt., and two Corporals. Can you confirm?

[Eric Tipton]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

Paul:

We will be tagging weapons with people's names.

The Officer/NCO structure for Foraging Parties is:

Lieutenant
Sergeant
Two Corporals

[PogueMahone]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

Eric,

Okay, so the weapon is tagged ... now what? Captor unit is moving with prisoners in tow? Who is responsible for carrying the weapon, captor or prisoner? What if there are a large number of prisoners taken, say a whole forage party?

I ask because prisoner scenarios are so typically flubbed over the modern issue of personal property retention vs. the original situation of "government weapon dropped and never seen again". I don't expect a miracle solution here, but as long as everyone is on the same page pre-event it will make the experience at least smoother during the event.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

I have been wondering about the same thing. Mainly because I am carrying original weapons that I would prefer not to get destroyed\lost. I guess that gives me more of a reason to not get captured.:D:wink_smil


Thanks


Andrew

[North_State_Rambler]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

I'm glad Andrew spoke up. One shouldn't assume that all prisoners that might be taken will be wearing bloo soots. I suspect it is more likely to be the reverse, especially after reading "Joe Brown's Pets." Unless, of course, the Federals are planning to execute any militia who attempt to surrender, in order to lighten their load. I'll be opening a pool on Friday for anyone who wishes to wager on which group will succumb to enemy action first. Running away is a period-correct and under-utilized option.


Does anyone know how much 80 rounds of live ammo, especially .69 cal ammo, would weigh? The lead weight seems to often be overlooked when talking about cartridge carrying capacity.


So Battle of Griswoldville twice on Saturday and once on Sunday?

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

Does anyone know how much 80 rounds of live ammo, especially .69 cal ammo, would weigh? The lead weight seems to often be overlooked when talking about cartridge carrying capacity.

Well Will, now that you've asked... A .69cal Ball Cartridge according to the 1862 US Army Ordnance Manual has a 412 grain ball, with 110 grains of powder. I'll leave out the paper weight of each cartidge to simplify my math. Which makes each .69cal Ball Cartridge weigh 522 grains. So... 80 cartridges would weigh 522 x 80 or 41,760 grains. One pound is 7000 grains so now you arrive at 41,760 / 7000 or 5.966 pounds for 80 rounds of .69cal ball ammunition.

Now if you want to determine what a .69cal expanding ball or .69cal buckshot cartridge would weigh... here is the the Ordnance Manual, enjoy...

http://books.google.com/books?id=wwY6DT2Sc_cC

[csabugler]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

As memory serves from my old NSSA days, a .58 is roughly 500 grains. 7000 grains to a pound. That means about 14 rounds per pound. I seem to recall averaging 16 to a pound on the "old style" mold I used, so that is consistant. So 80 rounds of .58 minnies only will weight about 5.7 pounds. That does not account for caps, paper, powder etc. which would be minor.

Usual disclaimers apply... :p

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

As memory serves from my old NSSA days, a .58 is roughly 500 grains. 7000 grains to a pound. That means about 14 rounds per pound. I seem to recall averaging 16 to a pound on the "old style" mold I used, so that is consistant. So 80 rounds of .58 minnies only will weight about 5.7 pounds. That does not account for caps, paper, powder etc. which would be minor.

Usual disclaimers apply... :p

Pete, since you've brought it up, don't forget the powder, it is significant...

a .58cal minie ball was nominally 500 grains and the powder charge was 60 grains. So 80 rounds would be 560 x 80 or 44,800 grains / 7000 for 6.4 pounds for 80 rounds.

a .69cal minie ball was 730 grains with a 70 grain powder charge. So 80 rounds would be 800 x 80 or 64,000 grains / 7000 for 9.143 pounds for 80 rounds.

On the subject at hand, if the Georgia Militia has enough force to push the foraging party I'm with away from one of the Shacks in the Georgia Forest... you can have at it. Discretion is the better part of valor and we're coming to forage, not play Feds and Rebs. Neither 'being captured' nor 'taking prisoners' is on my list for Bummers experiences.

[csabugler]

Re: Bummers Rules of Engagement

Good point, over 1/2 a pound for powder. See "disclaimer" :D