Planning Events for 2011

[Mcouioui]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Hi Pard's,

About is the event which you will organize in the same period as the BGR / IPW, if French Mess can be there, it will be there... ;)
And if you need ideas of scenarios, we should be able to find in our "perverse" spirit of French :) :) :)

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

I wanted to "bump" Paul's original thought for this thread.

While the "publicity" topic is a bit of a tangent, I think it may apply is it deals with defining ourselves for the public, making a larger audience aware of what we do, and growing our numbers, especially among the "new hobbyist" age groups (teens through 30's).

On Paul's main topic:
The best large events I've been to recently were Perryville 2002 and 2007 and Andersburg. I'm not sure why the Perryville events are so much better than larger (mega) eastern events, but they are.

I went to Andersburg last year and think events like that are the way forward for the hobby. The best of the best were there and the worst of the worst were not. At the end of the day, I think that's all that is required to bring us all together for a larger event.

John,

Thanks for bringing this back on track!

Some thoughts...when was the last time we had a concentrated effort to do something at Mannasses (2007??)...is anything left of Blackburn's Ford?? Would there be an interests in having some sort of combined Immersion Event/Living History along the lines of how the Glendale/Malvern Hill event was planned following these scenarios???

Paul B.

[Old Reb]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Mr. Mobley has contacted off site and I now fully agree with what he said. Since I know nothing about planning creative events, I will no longer write anything. Jay, if you want another BGR/IPW type event, you do it! The Ground Hornets and a very very small group of selective friends will continue to do what we do how we do it and the rest of you can do what you do. As I said, I have nothing to add about being creative in event planning, thus will let you fellows go your merry way. Have fun.

[yipper]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Gents,

The USDA Forest Service has recreation trails suitable for events throughout the Southern Region. See http://www.fs.fed.us/r8/sitemap.php No need to limit BGR or IPW type events to Louisiana, or to the good graces of Tom, Fred and the Ground Hornets (but thanks very much).

regards,

geoffrey lehmann

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

All,

Geoff is right on. Aside from BGR and Piney Woods, the "Fighting Withdrawal" event was held a few years ago in the Land Between the Lakes area. A similar event is set for 2010 in that same area.

Forest Service lands are wonderful for several reasons-
little to no "modern" traffic
pristine natural environment
extremely inexpensive to use
fine folks to deal with
supports land we already pay for (taxes) and doesn't line some private huckster's pockets

For instance, at BGR and Piney Woods, we used a section of seasonally closed trail. We made sure no hunting seasons were in session so we had a huge hunk of real estate pretty much to ourselves.

Land is the biggest hurdle. Lots of guys probably have ideas for events but don't know where to hold them. Like Geoff said- think Forest Service.

These are not (and in my opinion) should not be spectator oriented areas but we all know the events to go if we want to be watched by people behind ropes.

The regulations set forth are easily followed and the Forest Service folks Tom and I have worked with have been wonderful.

My two cents,

[Old Reb]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

In a rare moment of lucid creativity I would suggest any future events held on lovely Forest Service land in the South should be held in August. Goef, I lost my knife somewhere, would you mind looking for it. For those with post count envy, IPW has 1396 on the OTB where the truth is told and no small animals are harmed.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Tom,

I once attended an event organized by John Duffer and held at LBL in August. The heat and humidity were such that we could see our breath during the day. It was nearly tropical. Never again!

Back around to the original topic:
It sounds like the question being asked is:
How are the authentic/campaigner/progressive community going to collectively impact the larger maintream events that will be planned for the 150ths?

If you want to participate in mainstream mega events, go back to the model of the AoP. Create a home for a/c/p types to gather, work, play and insulate themselves from the rest of the event. Make it a functioning battalion and build companies that can work together time and again. Too much ad hoc organization will dilute the effort and the effect. It has to be a focused effort. I will go so far as to say you can't have a battalion on both sides of the field and expect success.

After all, which would you rather have: Two battalions, one US and one CS, of 250 guys in 6 companies, or, one battalion of 500 guys in 8 or 9 companies? Both are possible, but which one makes you drool to think about?

Some other thoughts about future events:
The quality of events has declined on the a/c/p side of this hobby. I've said it elsewhere and I'll say it here: The stick forts and flanking movements are nothing more than playing cowboys and indians. A battalion should function in the field as a battalion, not a collection of independent companies with a common camping ground. The effort to "win" the weekend has become a detriment to recreating history. The importance of burning powder has outstripped the reality of the boredom of a soldier's life. The use of terrain, troops and tactics can be used correctly even when site limitations do not allow us to dig. Correct distances are not maintained and sometimes interactions with the opposing force devolve into name-calling and childish teasing. We should be ashamed and embarassed at what we pass off as "quality events" nowadays.

[ohpkirk]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Joe,
The one problem I see with the battalion models: what are the chances of actually fielding the 500 man battalion of authentics? There may be a large intial support of the idea, but when the companies form there will be consolidation of companies to form early war sized companies due to both real life interjecting in play time and people just not following through with their intial support. It would be a sight to see, I agree with that, but is more than likely not going to occur. There have been posts in the past posing the same question on attendance and noting the large number of members this site has. Even with the large member base of this web site, it is just that: a website. There is no guarantee, even if the greatest event ever planned in the history of events, that people would be willing to travel across the nation to attend. The member base that we have to draw from ranges from high school students to professional historians, each with their respective obstacles that would hinder them from attending.

The only way I used to be able to attend the Cleburne's LH's back in the late 90's was because Lon was coming from out this way...I had no problem driving the 3 hrs to his house, it was the next 8-12 hrs that were the problem.

It was good seeing you in Louisiana,

[PogueMahone]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Cody,

You are right, my numbers are way overstated. Optimism on my part? In reality, we could only get about 125 per opposing side and maybe 300 max for a single battalion. I think 300 is actually a reasonable number, taking into account all the reasons people can't participate in a specific given event. The primary issue would be those that have relationships with mainstream units that take priority. Maybe an incentive for them to cut those disreputable ties would be banishment from the AC if they registered and/or attended a designated event with any but the a/c/p/h battalion?

That might not be a bad thing, since I think only a fraction of the posters here have ever attended a decent event and many THINK they have attended a decent event, but haven't. (Attending an adjunct isn't the same as attending a farb-free event.)

I guess the real issue would be getting all the egos to step back and allow it to happen. That is usually what creates competition for bodies: Someone wants to be in charge of something and has to recruit people to justify the rank. All of a sudden it is like picking teams on the playground. There is always the problem with cliques and personality clashes and egos. The recent development of organizing companies based on people's geography is interesting to me, as I see no purpose in it.

Frankly, I'd like to see the Craig Hadley/Outpost process for building companies: Appoint officers and NCOs, then line up all available privates and have them count 1 thru however many companies you are trying to organize. All the 1s go in a company, all the 2s in another, etc. Even company sizes, meet new people, levels the playing field to a great degree.

But my point was/is and remains, the quality of events is going down the tubes quickly and someone is holding the handle down as they watch the water swirl. We need to refill the bowl.

my two cents, and happy to have included a toilet reference,

[BrianHicks]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

There was a brief discussion, started 11 months ago, which is very kindred to the original intent of the first post in this discussion. That earlier discussion was titled: 150th Anniversary Cycle, and how it might impact our end of the Hobby, which can be found here:

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17086

and may be worth reviewing, or considering some of the posts there, when preparing a post for here.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

I agree with Brian... 150th prep stuff should really stay on that thread he listed above. This might be off-base for this thread, but I can't help but put my 2 cents forth because I care where the progressive community is going...

I went to Andersburg last year and think events like that are the way forward for the hobby. The best of the best were there and the worst of the worst were not. At the end of the day, I think that's all that is required to bring us all together for a larger event. -John Wickett

Right-on. I was at Andersburg last year and it was very good. It was no IPW, of course, but it didn't try to be... essentially it was a mainstream-style event with campaign standards (or vice versa how you please) ... kind of a "compromise" event. It had something for everyone- mainstreamers could meet and network with campaigners... a relaxed atmosphere in which we could all see one-another and socialize a bit as well as get some quality drill time in and meet some quality sutlers face-to-face finally. Heck, my wife and in-laws were able to attend and see a much better event than the "other" mainstreamer Gettysburg that was held that summer. They can't come to immersion events normally, so I thought that was a kick that they finally got an idea of what I do for a hobby- bonus for me there. I had a bully-of-a-time there.

But Piney was wonderful for what it was also... total immersion, escapism, a bit of survival and lightening the load along with more gear/drill/movement/fieldcraft lessons learned. Piney reminded me much of what I haven't done since the real Army in a historical way- it's very good for a refresher now-and-then.

For me, I feel we should concentrate "our end of the hobby" on events like Andersburg (open to all/the public) as well as Piney (open to just us) with perhaps a small "campaigner camp" at mainstream events if it pleases. That way, a campaigner is "well-rounded" in all aspects/sides of the hobby as well as being a "silent salesman" for the more progressive end of what we love. Never to recruit or offend, but to be who we are and let others know it in a sublime way... saying: "Hey gents, we're here for you when you need our help and advice but not unless you seek it or want to know." A campaigner does this by just showing-up to mainstream/compromise events... your deportment, drill, friendship and confidence attracts many without being brash, overt, or obnoxious.

I grow a bit weary of people who say "the hobby is decreasing". I understand their point-of-view but... Remember guys, this is a hobby, and if the economy is bad or another hobby is now en vogue, then we will lose members of some sort. I ask you to give it some time in this case- the economy will get better and the other hobby du jour will experience its own plateau eventually.

I see some parallels in being a Mason to what is being said about this hobby- many of our group's members say frequently 'our membership is decreasing'. Yes, sometimes that is true, membership comes-and-goes... but there will always be a group of dedicated individuals of some sort no matter how big it is in some way- just like Freemasonry.

I'd rather have 20 people that are totall committed to a 'W64' or 'Piney'-like event (or even an Andersburg event for that matter) than 200 that are semi-committed or have no heart in what they are doing or why they are doing it. We can always scale-down the scope of an event to accommodate the projected attendance numbers to make the best of any event. Some of the best events are smaller in size.

I care about this hobby and want to make a positive difference and I know many people do to. It was evident last week at the event. Last week at Piney, I felt seeing that friends I know and laugh with was just as important as the American heritage we were there to discover and the tales of the American people in a certain long lost time years ago we were there to remember. Just like I thought, the experience was worth all the money I ever spent, and I spent quite a bit to come to the event. I'll never forget it.

Look at last week: It wasn't just us military-impression boys from all parts of the US... Our European friends are here to bring the experience more to life for everyone. Marvin Greer came to add his unique perspective to the mix, and our civilian reenactors and wagon drivers provided more and better added effects to the mix to make the event come to life. All were welcome and did their impressions to their best. Sounds like to me from all of this someone/some group has the winning formula for an event that many people are willing to come from many miles around to experience and enjoy. For a moment, history (or the idea of it) was no longer a dry thing in a book, but it was reality. (My feet still hurt from it... it sure was reality.)

I wonder what the 'first reenactors' back at the 100th anniversary events would think if they saw us now? Just a thought...

Buck-up, me lads... There will always be a progressive hobby no matter how big it is sizewise. For me, I don't care if we have to do drill and camp in someone's backyard- provided there are still friends, American heritage & history, and the quest for higher standards, then it will always be a bully of a time.

All the best- Johnny Lloyd:wink_smil

PS- I was in the media at one time in my life and you really have to watch who/what media is invited or made known about an event. People who are looking-in from the outside have the tendancy to not quite understand something positive that they are not part of or aren't interested in themselves. I've seen where totally off-base judgements have been passed by unscrupulous journalists about groups of certain hobby-passionate individuals. The potential for that is not good. Moral is: When handling media matters- be wise and wary, but not afraid.

[Gallo de Cielo]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

Variety is the spice of life. I enjoy a mix of events. Out here on this side of the Big Muddy, we often form mini-adjunct groups of squad or platoon strength and latch on for the battles while pulling off into the woods or elsewhere to boil cabbage and drink whiskey of an evening.

I have zero issue with going to mainstream events. I have no illusions about quality but sometimes I get the itch to see bigger numbers.

I also enjoy immersive, rigorous events like Fighting Withdrawal which are devoid of spectators and keep us moving all the time. BGR and Piney Woods were longer versions of this same mentality with a few other pieces added in as Johnny noted (ox and mule wagons, contraband/runaway, rugged environment, longer duration, folks from far and wide).

I think one issue is fence-sitters and lurkers who never attend anything but dog-and-pony show mainstream affairs all while looking at sites like this and lusting about different events. I too started in a mainstream unit and did that thing for 7-8 years until I was burnt out from the same-old, same-old. Telling your home unit/company/battalion that you are not going to "battalion MAX effort XYZ event" to attend something you read about on the AC can be taken as an act of treason. It's a tough road for sure. Ultimately a guy has to make a leap of faith. A true friend in his home unit will still be his friend no matter what event he attends. A flaky one wasn't worth calling friend to begin with. Bottom line- it is a hobby. We all only get a few events per year and making those count, getting something meaningful from each one, and broadening the experiences we gain should be considered.

I am open to some sort of larger battalion effort at the 150th cycle of events. Likely many of us will be attacted to those events for one reason or another so we may as well band together and have a good hunk of humanity on the same page. Joe and Cody's vision of a 300 man unit, maybe with correct mobile logistics and a few other trappings, would be a keen sight to see and a neat thing to be a part of.

My two cents,

[john duffer]

Re: Planning Events for 2011

"I once attended an event organized by John Duffer and held at LBL in August. The heat and humidity were such that we could see our breath during the day. It was nearly tropical. Never again!"

That was my first standalone event and I'm not sure exactly what I was thinking. The high that Saturday was right at 101 and it was the only time I ever saw Nate Petersburg worn out. Never again is right.