150th Cycle Meeting

[KathyBradford]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Charles,

Thank you for posting straight, factual information. As always, it's the most efficient way to answer questions.

[Rob Murray]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Mr. Boulden,

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I see names of AC members on that list. How deep is the Deep South? Seems like there are 2 gents from South Carolina on it. I was talking to a friend in Alabama this morning and they were aware of the meeting. I don't think this meeting was held in secret. Heck, I live in Minnesota and I knew about it. I couldn't make it because I was at an event that weekend.

I'm you want to get involved, contact Chris Anders. I'm sure he'd like more help.

[Spinster]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I am just asking, and not in anyway trying to stir trouble, but is there any similiar type of planning tht anyone is aware of for the Western Theater, or even the Trans-Mississippi?

Jake, that sort of thing would have been done heretofore under the auspices of the North-South Alliance--at least for that area west of the Appalachians and east of the Big River, with forays across the Big River at least once every five years.

Over the years, poor leadership and sheer bullheadedness in some arms of that organization caused greater and greater rifts until the whole thing fell apart last year in a testosterone storm of amazing magnitude. I spent a heck of a lot of time on the phone and computer trying to exercise 'womanly influence';) to get some parties talking again, or to get some experienced younger men to pick up the phone, talk to each other and grab this thing and run with it. Unless some common sense has surfaced in recent months, that's not happening.

The NSA had the ability to put on a 'high end mainstream' event, with good effort made to attract and accomodate the 'history heavy' crowd. And, many of its movers and shakers were the 'history heavy' crowd.

From where I sit now, I can't see anybody with a proven track record of putting on a large scale event of the quality needed for the 150ths, located in the physical area once covered by the NSA. Size yes, quality no.

Some young men will have to step up to the plate quickly, and get on the learning curve for this to happen.

And folks need to realize how many of the men At High Tide, did not come from the eastern seaboard states. The road always seems to run east........and the trip west is impossible to many minds.

[Clsinclair]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Mr. Boulden,

I'm not sure what you are talking about. I see names of AC members on that list. How deep is the Deep South? Seems like there are 2 gents from South Carolina on it. I was talking to a friend in Alabama this morning and they were aware of the meeting. I don't think this meeting was held in secret. Heck, I live in Minnesota and I knew about it. I couldn't make it because I was at an event that weekend.

I'm you want to get involved, contact Chris Anders. I'm sure he'd like more help.

No gents from SC on the list but that is my fault. I was invited but had other obligations. The Carolina Legion is from NC and is a fine organization.

[Rob Murray]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I stand corrected. Heck, Iowa is the deep south for me.

[John of Spotsyltucky]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

With no desire to cause argument, but simply to put the record straight, Chris Anders characterized myself, and the Spotsylvania 145th I was attempting to hold, as a "New organizer, lack of good advice/guidance, lack of sweat equity/support" within the first lines of the 150th Cycle Meeting minutes.
To correct the record let it be known that this would have been my fourth event as an organizer. My previous events were: 130th North Anna- 1994, 140th Spotsylvania- 2004 and the 145th Chancellorsville- 2008.
I will assure all readers that there was plenty of "sweat equity" working on this event.
This is simply a statement of the facts. I would appreciate the moderators permitting my posting of this information.

Thank you for reading this.

John Cummings

[Charles Heath]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17086&page=4

Reviewing a previous 150th CW Anniversary event discussion may prove useful for some.

[jake.koch]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Charles,

Thanks for posting that link, that thread was from when all my end of the semester Grad Papers and grading were due last year. Needless to say I missed the discussion. I feel alot better now. Thanks again.

[Charles Heath]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22128&page=3

A more recent thread also worth reading, especially in light of the excellent 2011-2013 events already on the books that may be over run, so to speak.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

For the last year and a half I’ve refrained from posting on this Forum. But now that planning for the 150th cycle has begun, I would like to join in the discussion. In part this stems from the fact that my name has already come up. But I also want to answer some of the questions that have arisen.

Who went to the meeting? Thanks to Charles we all have a list. Charles may also have a list of those invited as well as other background information that he would like to share. I won’t share it because I feel the decision belongs to the organizer or the individuals concerned. A number of those folks would probably rather plan and work on events than take part in Internet-based meta-campaigning, and who really can blame them?

Probably around fifty people got invited, so it didn’t seem much like a secret. They appeared to include everyone who’s worked with Chris for the last decade. They represented progressive units and the progressive wings of several eastern mainstream units. They, and Chris, have a track record of putting on well-scripted battle reenactments of 300 to 1,000 soldiers on a side, with camping designed to accommodate both campaign and garrison styles.

Chris originally scheduled the meeting in February, but weather and individual commitments caused him to reschedule. Attendance still lagged, but I think everyone invited who couldn’t show had someone there to speak for them and report back. I wrote up my own AAR for a few other players who couldn’t make it.

People who know Chris know that he will put on a respectable series of events for this cycle or literally die in the effort. Part of the interest of some of us in participating lies in ensuring that we achieve the former without the latter.

What events will this group produce? Some ideas got tossed around, as you can tell from the minutes; the list will get firmed up some in August. At that time the groups involved should also have a final version of the “Common Sense” resolution to approve (note to Eric: imitation really is the sincerest form of flattery). In any case, you don’t have to worry about not hearing from Chris.

I don’t find anything suspicious in the fact that Chris first contacted those folks who worked with him before. I don’t think he intended any slight by not reaching out farther west – the west seems to have its own well-established circuit of events and organizers. I also don’t find it unnatural that he did not reach out to folks who primarily focus on smaller living histories geared toward their own high standards of authenticity – not a different hobby, but a different and more specialized facet.

On the whole, I find it even less surprising that Chris did not include on the invitation list many whose principal contributions to the hobby occur in online forums.

Ms. Lawson, you raised an excellent question about civilians. The challenges involved in raising the level of civilian authenticity in these upcoming events dwarf those on the military side to such an extent that one hardly knows where to begin. We discussed this at length – probably greater length than the official minutes convey.

An excerpt from my notes may illustrate what I mean: “Someone raised the issue of mentoring; AGSAS (Atlantic Guard Soldiers Aid Society) was mentioned and several participants wrote down the name as a source for information. The idea of inviting AGSAS to help was raised, but at least one person suggested that a meeting of AGSAS and 300 ladies in ball gowns was apt to result in terror on both sides, if not a chemical chain reaction that would threaten the planet.”

I confess that the “one person” was me; I assure you I meant no disrespect to AGSAS.

Like previous events put on by Chris and Kevin Air and the folks who work with them, the big events in the upcoming cycle will be “fusion events” -- “progressive” but with significant numbers of soldiers from primarily mainstream units. Staging these will present a series of intricate problems whose solution will require an awkward set of balancing and compromise. That’s the only way that we will get battle reenactments of a reasonable size without the laughable level of inauthenticity at so-called “mega” events. If, knowing that, you still want to get involved, I would wager that you can.

A question came up in this thread about finances. The organizers plan for most of the money to come from the registration fees of participating re-enactors and for any profits to go to preservation. Re-enactors will plan and organize the events for the benefit of other re-enactors, and history. This may not meet everyone’s interpretation of “EBUFU” but it would appear to meet a literal definition. Doing this allows re-enactors to stage the events accurately without having to compromise for the viewing angles of spectators. It also allows for participant-only dusk scenarios and for departures before noon on Sunday.

Overall, I think this will produce a series of eastern events offering a little something to everyone on this forum. And, in my opinion, that’s a good thing.

See you all in the field.

[Spinster]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Mr. Schaffner,

Its good to know that *someone* is thinking on the issue of civilians.

To allow and encourage the "ballgowns at 10:00 am" crowd at events which will be billed as the best we, as a hobby, can offer on a large scale is to fully and completely disrespect the lives and sacrifies of those women, children, and yes, men who lived and died as civilians during the period.

What is missing is attempts to educate and inform or attempts to offer scenarios that would be in keeping with the period. I was mightily surprised to not see Dutch farmers or wives selling milk at a dollar a ladle At High Tide. You know they were there THEN--why in the world were they not with us last summer?

When there is leadership in an organization that worries about "girlfriends and tagalongs" , or that expects 'soldiers' to educate their companions, that tells me that they have not encountered serious civilian participants in the hobby--or have bought into the myth that excellent people are somehow scary. To my knowledge, no one at AGSAS has bitten anyone.

The civilians coordinator for AT HIGH TIDE literally had her hands tied. She was not provided with significant designated funds to plan and provide activity for civilians who paid just as much as the soldiers to attend.

Well back in the winter, members of the Winston Free-State offered her a long list of available talks that we had done for various groups. Others did the same. Not only was she not authorized to waive registration fees for speakers, she did not have fiscal authorization or any type of event support for even a large fly to gather under. If y'all are serious about civilian participation and education at a large scale event, then provide your civilian coordinator with adequate resources to do her job. Y'all had some of the best civilian speakers in the hobby on site, especially in the vendor row, and no mechanism for them to communicate effectively with folks that needed to hear them.

I note that the minutes mention Perryville as a good example. Mrs. Simpson is a strong contributing member of that site. She is also given access to funding from the event, and men willing to work--a little bit can go a long way.

Y'all might also want to take a clue from another large scale organization that worked well for many years. For a number of years, my pattern was to roll into NSA events around midnight on Wednesday, kick the seat back, and sleep in the vehicle. Invaribly, I would wake up on Thursday morning to a world with camps fully laid out down to the company level, clear signage, amenities in place, and vendor tents rising in the distance. In one case, we actually had to dump wagons and gear a full week before the event so as not to haul them from Alabama to Kentucky two weeks in a row--and when we came in wondering where to put them--lo and behold, all the camp signs were already out.

And finally, lets stab at another myth--that you can't solve an improperly dressed civilain on the spot. Now, I must admit I cannot solve a red acetate ballgown at 10:00 am with anything other than a match and a credit card. But on numerous occassions, we have solved the problem of the ubiquitious camp dress skirt and blouse combo with a good sewing kit, a willing participant, a tin of hair balm, and an hour of time on Saturday morning. A loaner slat bonnet, shawl, apron covers a lot of sin. Its not perfect, but it is an improvement.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I didn't get to "At High Tide" but we heard loud and clear from the coordinator in Winchester.

And most folks seemed to take it to heart. There seemed a widespread recognition that the civilian impression isn't just a way to entertain modern camp-followers, but a key to establishing the context in which the military operations occur.

In Winchester, one way of recognizing this was the idea of kicking off the cycle with a "militia muster" where even the "military" participants in fact start as civilians and the townspeople are a major part of the event. Having civilians play a key role at the start should go a long way toward proper recognition throughout the cycle.

As you know, I've enjoyed and greatly benefited from the civilian presence at a number of events, not least a year ago in Newfane. So I mean it when I say I hope your concerns get addressed early on in the upcoming cycle.

And I also hope that getting things started now will help avoid some of the glitches that occurred at past events.

But more than hoping, I plan to help, to the extent that I can.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]
Probably around fifty people got invited, so it didn’t seem much like a secret. They appeared to include everyone who’s worked with Chris for the last decade. They represented progressive units and the progressive wings of several eastern mainstream units. They, and Chris, have a track record of putting on well-scripted battle reenactments of 300 to 1,000 soldiers on a side, with camping designed to accommodate both campaign and garrison styles...
I don’t find anything suspicious in the fact that Chris first contacted those folks who worked with him before. I don’t think he intended any slight by not reaching out farther west – the west seems to have its own well-established circuit of events and organizers. I also don’t find it unnatural that he did not reach out to folks who primarily focus on smaller living histories geared toward their own high standards of authenticity – not a different hobby, but a different and more specialized facet.

To clarify, the posts I've made were NOT mean as an attack at Chris or his staff.

I totally understand why the planning would begin with those who have PROVEN their commitment in the past to help put on events over the last decade...the intention of the posts I've made are more of a rally-point...as Chris's events have consistantly been debated on these forums, until the AHT event last summer (which overall, recieved very positive reactions from the members of this forum who attended).

Why is it important for us to rally? Well lets look at the two G-burg events last summer...based on the scuttlebutt on this forum...and Szabo's forum...as Mainstreamers, Progressives, and Campaigners...we seemed split (probably 60/40) on which event we attended, with a large portion of this forum choosing to attend the GAC event over Andersburg...can we afford to run parallel events?

Representation: I don't know much about the Blue...but speaking from the Southern Campaigner perspective (at least in the East), we no longer have any Larger Umbrella like affiliations (other than the PSL, and CMF). While it appeared both those organizations had at least one representative invited/present for the latest Winchester planning meeting...what about the other "independant" Confederate Companies here in the East? While a mere 15-20 soldiers at a time may seem like some menial amount of soldiers, when that's multiplied out 10 times...now the numbers start to come together (thinking of the CS Companies who are typically in attendance at Eastern "EBUFU" events like Rich Mtn., Payne's Farm, GMH '08: SWB, NSR, 23rd VA...etc.). Not to mention the Brothers/Sisters over them big scary mountains...

Since we are so fragmented, if we don't come together to form some sort of representation, and assist in the planning/execution of these larger anniversary events...then we have to realize that we'll be left to act as fill companies for the other consolidated organizations in attendance...

So again...the aim of my posts was not to throw stones...but to inform...THE BURDEN IS ON US, to solidify some representation, TO RALLY...and be apart of the planning process...or it's all table scraps from there.

Paul B.

[PogueMahone]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

...(thinking of the CS Companies who are typically in attendance at Eastern "EBUFU" events like Rich Mtn...)

Not to mention the Brothers/Sisters over them big scary mountains...

This is an interesting commentary. Paul is telling us that the Rich Mountain event was an "Eastern EBUFU". And then he suggests the folks "over the mountains" might even boost such event numbers. Paul, I'm smiling now because my CS company was commanded by a guy from SC, the 1st Sgt (me) was from Tenn, and the ranks were filled from about 7 different states on both sides of the mountains and maybe one from across the river. Paul, Rich Mountain was not an "Eastern EBUFU", it was promoted as a national event and organized by folks from the Midwest.

Earlier in this thread, I stated that this hobby is no longer regional. Rich Mountain is a great example of that. The list of events in the last 5 years that had participants from each major region/theater is going to be longer than the list that didn't. For all the talk of getting a plan together for the 150th series of events, why are we looking to each region to organize events within that region? Why not a national plan? If you'd told me that Chris Anders, Eric Tipton and Tom Yearby had gotten together to try and scratch out a plan for national events, I think my ears would perk up to hear what was said.

But, now that I see what this mystery meeting was about (Thanks, Charles, for lifting the "Cone of Silence"), I'm satisfied, not curious and see no real impact on my plans for the next few years. "Same regiment, new clothes".

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

This is an interesting commentary. Paul is telling us that the Rich Mountain event was an "Eastern EBUFU". And then he suggests the folks "over the mountains" might even boost such event numbers. Paul, I'm smiling now because my CS company was commanded by a guy from SC, the 1st Sgt (me) was from Tenn, and the ranks were filled from about 7 different states on both sides of the mountains and maybe one from across the river. Paul, Rich Mountain was not an "Eastern EBUFU", it was promoted as a national event and organized by folks from the Midwest.

Earlier in this thread, I stated that this hobby is no longer regional. Rich Mountain is a great example of that. The list of events in the last 5 years that had participants from each major region/theater is going to be longer than the list that didn't. For all the talk of getting a plan together for the 150th series of events, why are we looking to each region to organize events within that region? Why not a national plan? If you'd told me that Chris Anders, Eric Tipton and Tom Yearby had gotten together to try and scratch out a plan for national events, I think my ears would perk up to hear what was said.

But, now that I see what this mystery meeting was about (Thanks, Charles, for lifting the "Cone of Silence"), I'm satisfied, not curious and see no real impact on my plans for the next few years. "Same regiment, new clothes".

Maybe my commentary wasn't clear...so please permit me to clarify, before my comments are skewed out of proportion.

I did not intend to for the credit for the Rich Mtn. event to be mis-matched from it's organizers...as pointed out...this event was largely organized/attended by folks West of the Mtns....but the fact is that this event occured in the "Eastern Region"...regardless of who planned it.

Nowhere did I mention anything about "Regions planning events" (but hell, that's a damn good idea)...having a "local" spearhead the effort to organize an event, has potential to alleviate some of the logistical considerations of events.

Did I say, "folks over the mountains, would "boosts" event numbers"? I don't believe I made that comment either, while it's nice to see guys flock to a particular impression in effort to boost numbers (grey-blue, blue-grey, east-west, west-east), outside of the "normal/comforting" base-impression...the truth is...it sure would be nice to provide oppurtunities for people to portray their base impressions...seeing a Western Contingent here in the East portray a Regiment/Battalion/Companies from somewhere outside of the ANV (thinking the Western Contingent at Andersburg)...and of course vice-versa (thinking of the ANV Contingent at a GA Living History a few years ago).

So we're agreed that event theatres cannot operate in black boxes mutually exclusive from one another...they must be mutually inclusive, but that requires putting past grievances aside, and working together (yah, a miracle).