M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

[Iceman]

I don't claim to know anything about 19th c. weapons; i.e. how they were made, the differances between this model and that, etc. So, my question is this; if the Richmond Rifle was made with the same machinery as that of M1855, would it be possible to swap an M1855 lock plate with that of a Richmond Rifle lock plate, and visa versa? Thereby, allowing a person to have one rifle, but use it for either U.S. or C.S.?

Thanks,

[David Fox]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

Yes. It's a snap fit in the originals for the reason you set forth. I use an original M.1855 rifle-musket w/ an old replacement Yeck barrel upon which I substitute an original 1862 Richmond lock (and Richmond bronze buttplate) as the need arises.
I presume (but do not know), that the same would be true for replica '55s and Richmonds manufactured by the same maker. A company that offers M1855s and Richmonds concurrently would likely provide interchangability of the respective lockplates for the simplicity of manufacture. If someone doesn't help in this thread, a call to S&S Firearms or Lodgewood would doubtless clarify.

[Marylander in Grey]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

The 1855 Type 1 & Type 2 use a Maynard Tape Primer as the ignition source in lue of a cap. The 1861 Springfield and the Richmond Rifle use the plate of the 1855 with out machining the cavity for the Tape Primer.
On the Authentic side of things I would say the inspectors marks and proof marks would be different and those are not interchangeable. With this IMHO you would have a Non Authentic weapon period.
I recommend purchasing The Civil War Musket: A Handbook for Historical Accuracy- Lock, Stock, and Barrel by Craig Barry. This resource will give valuable insight on the subject of Defarbing Reproduction Fire Arms. It doesnt mention the Richmond Rifle Musket at all as a down side.

[lwtaggart]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

Friends, There are variations in the Richmond rifle musket depending on the time of manufacture by CS Armory Richmond. For example, some features of the 1861 dated weapon are a steel but plate with US stamp and brass stock tip. Of course the well known feature of high and low hump locks. Another notable of the Richmond is the location of markings, (barrel band U ). There were many changes to the weapon over time

To better help answer the question of conversion, yes the 1855 lock is interchangeable with the 1861 Richmond for repro weapons. How close to an original it will become will take more than just the lock change.

George Taggart

[GPM]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

For the purpose you intend, a 61 dated Richmond lock could be interchanged with a 61 dated Harpers Ferry 55. Some of the earliest products of Richmond did use leftover or salvaged parts from H/F. Examples with the patchbox are scarce but did exist. Barrel dates would not be an issue in this way. Also steel nosecaps are not unheard of on 61 dated Richmonds.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

A good book for research on the Richmond rifle-muskets is Paul Davie's CS Armory, Richmond. To answer the question as posed, since the CS Richmond is a copy of the US 1855 made on the same machinery captured from Harpers Ferry that was producing US 1855s, most parts would interchange between the two except for probably the Maynard arm, etc in the 1855 lock assembly. In terms of reproductions, both Armi Sport and Euroarms produce both a CS Richmond and a US 1855 from their own US 1861 reproduction (ironically retroverting from a later model to an earlier model). The parts on both of these exchange with the variants from the same maker, but will not work in each other's models, except for the hammers. The original CS Richmond used the same eagle VP barrel proof as the US models.

Except for a few minor details, with the purchase of a US 1855 from Euroarms, you could easily produce a CS Richmond by switching out the lock plates and a few minor details. The question would be "Why would you want to?" There were around 45% fewer CS Richmonds made than US 1855s, and both reproductions of the CS Richmond have either 1862 or 1863 dates on the lock plates, somewhat limiting their event utility. US 1855s were in use on both sides. Ironically so were CS Richmonds, there are several instances where CS Richmonds were picked up and used by Union soldiers because they show up on Ordnance returns as "Richmond Springfields." One first hand account from a Union soldier with a CS Richmond that he picked up states he was looking forward to shooting it back at its Confederate makers. Union soldiers were apparently unaware that the Johnnies could make anything as good as the CS Richmond, and there is anecdotal evidence early on of US soldiers wondering aloud if the CS Richmonds were refurbished US 1861 battlefield pick-ups.

To summarize my thinking on it, the CS Richmond is probably over-represented in the hobby based on the skimpy numbers produced, and the US 1855 has greater utilization potential for early war events. I would recommend keeping it simple and just carry a US 1855. However, with a few minor changes you could do a two-fer. The Watchdog offered a defarbed US 1855 for a battlefield preservation raffle with an "extra" CS Richmond lock plate with that very idea in mind. IIRC we did pretty well on it.

[Blair]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

On a whole, the M-1855's are interchangeable with the Richmond manufactured and produced firearms. There are some modifications to the Richmond made arms that do not allow some Richmond variants to be changed back into '55's.
The model '55 that was being produced at Harpers Ferry at the time it was captured by VA State troops was what we today call the type III '55 Rifle Musket. This variant uses all steel furniture including a steel patch box and an "iron" nose cap. The earlier type I and type II production model '55 Rifle Musket stocks use all steel furniture, "NO" patch box with a brass nose cap.
When actual manufacture/production of arms begin at Richmond, it will be the type I and II '55 stock pattern they copy and use for producing the Richmond made arms (no patch box with brass nose cap)
Once the machinery is set up and functional at Richmond they will produce an arm with the high hump lock, without any of the mill work for the Maynard system for priming. These locks will be marked with Richmond, Va. with an 1861 date.
Early in 1862 the Richmond Armory is Nationalized and the markings will change to C. S. Richmond, Va. in two lines with a date of 1862. (Still a high hump type lock plate.)
Richmond will product three types of firearms from this machinery. Rifle Musket, Rifle length arm and a Carbine length arm.
Sometime late in 1862 brass will be substituted for the butt plate. Brass butt plate will be found most commonly on the Carbine and Rifle variants.
It will be at this time that the lock will change from the High hump to what is refereed to toady as the Mid Hump type lock. This Mid hump type lock plate will remain as the standard, with the exception of minor modifications to the beveling on the hump itself.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

Hallo!

Well covered.

I would just add a small additional comment about the later production
M1855 RM's having the "short range" rear sight and the not the "long range" type of the earlier version.
A "Richmond" RM would not have the earlier M1855 long range rear sight.

Curt

[Blair]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

Unless it were made up from captured parts. Such extras were made up and stored for doing repairs by Harpers Ferry Armory. These, however, do not fall into the Richmond manufactured production firearms.
So, with that little bit of clarification, Curt, you are quite correct.

The biggest problem with converting any of the repro Richmond's back into a '55... is the use of the brass putt plate on the repro Richmond. No '55 three band used a brass butt plate.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

Hallo!

IIRC, the brass butt plates are still just brass plated steel?
They could be stripped. But then there would be an issue with going back to an M1855. I supposed one could weigh the cost effectiveness of buying a second buttplate in order to swap in and out.

Curt

[Blair]

Re: M1855 & Richmond Rifle lock

Curt,

I have not found this to be the case with Euroarms version of a Richmond Rifle Musket.
The butt plate and nose cap on the one I have are both solid cast brass. I also have butt plates (2) and nose cap (1) I have ordered from Euroarms as spare or replacement parts for building guns, that are solid cast brass.
Are all the repro's done that way? I can't say. This information is based on what I have received from Euroarms "only".
What is Armi Sport doing?... only they know. This is only one of many reason I don't use Armi Sport.