Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

STEVE ACKER GETS IT. Post of the decade, right here!

To James Phillips, 12th Virginia Infantry, who buried your brother at Spotsylvania and to Captain Brown who died leading your company through the Miller Apple Orchard, I apologize for my self-important belief that somehow, I understand what you went through and can recreate it authentically. I can never truly understand nor do I want to recreate the hell you lived. I do my best to honor the memory, to educate myself and the public but my efforts fall short because I've not seen Gettysburg,Shiloh, drill or camp the way you have. I have never seen a wounded man crawl through the fires of the Wilderness. I've never scratched at lice, gone to sick call, felt a march to Perryville or returned home scarred by war. I wear cool stuff for two days then head to Taco Bell for a Nacho Bellgrande. Oh yea, I've read a bunch of books to.

Its called humility, folks.

Thank you, Steve, for checking this thread back into reality.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

Thread Closed.

Yep, we authentics love to eat our young. Nice job, boys.
Remember the "Big 3".

[JimConley]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

The bottom line as I see it is that this forum is the wrong place to discuss or gripe about blatantly wrong impressions. The standards of this forum and its members has progressed beyond the point where rants such as these accomplish anything other than taking up bandwidth.

Oh, I love these threads! It's like a schoolyard fight that needs to finish quickly before the teacher sees. :baring_te

Dan W,
I agree with you that discussion about bad impressions, or any level of impression for the matter, wastes bandwidth. And, why is that, I wonder? Probably because a very significant portion of the active members here have been spoon-fed what "authentic" is through their computer screen, yet have no f@&%ing clue what a Civil War soldier looked like or how they acted. Thus, it goes without saying (but I will anyways for the "other" kids) that a discussion about impressions, good or bad, cannot be held if you don't know what the hell you're talking about to begin with. Too, I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "the standards of this forum." Do you mean in regards to discussion topics? This guy's an idiot, so let's close the thread before the vultures pick him apart for 12 pages...that sort of thing? Or do you mean standards that are expected for event participation? Because I've been to plenty of these AC sponsored events (I refuse to use the acronym EBUFU :sick:) where the bad and mediocre impressions greatly outnumbered the string of good ones. Point is, yeah, it's a waste of time, but it shouldn't be. If anyone knows that trying to get people to wake up and challenge themselves to be better has proven to be a waste of time, it's me. Sometimes I think that I could have accomplished more if I had been talking to a brick wall.

If you truly feel that "EBUFU" events aren't worthwhile, then why should any of us feel that spending the money to buy more authentic clothing is worthwhile? I can go to streamfests in a uniform from Blockade Runner and save hundreds to invest in my cot, wall tent and cast iron stove.

Hey, hey now. Let's not pick on Daley, that's my job :tounge_sm.

Joe,
I think that you misunderstood what Chris was saying. The point was, this is a hobby, worry about yourself and go to the events you want to go to. Or in other words, enjoy it the way you want to. If AC events are your thing, go to as many of them as you want and be merry. If you'd rather cook bacon in the woods with twelve of your buds for the weekend, you can do that too. Why does it, or why should it, concern you with what others do with their hobby if you're enjoying yourself at the events you go to?

Oh! And, Pat Lewis, you're freakin' great

[Steve Acker]

A bad impression begins with what we think and say

Really, all this because one guy has a wild hair. What do we call other human beings who have not dedicated as much effort into the hobby? Really? Because one buys good stuff or does research doesn't make them a better human being. What name do we call them? How about the name their parents gave them? That works for me.

And as far as missionaries into the mainstream world,no thanks. I'm not that important, authentically divine or omnipotent.

Honestly, sometimes I feel the more we try to "do it right", the more we miss the mark. Sure sleeping on the ground gives me a greater appreciation of sleeping on the ground and being surrounded by guys wearing researched gear helps make the visual a little closer, but I've never immersed. I've been involved in the hobby since 1987 and a part of the authentic community for a long time and I will never be able to immerse myself into their world and nor do I want to.

To James Phillips, 12th Virginia Infantry, who buried your brother at Spotsylvania and to Captain Brown who died leading your company through the Miller Apple Orchard, I apologize for my self-important belief that somehow, I understand what you went through and can recreate it authentically. I can never truly understand nor do I want to recreate the hell you lived. I do my best to honor the memory, to educate myself and the public but my efforts fall short because I've not seen Gettysburg,Shiloh, drill or camp the way you have. I have never seen a wounded man crawl through the fires of the Wilderness. I've never scratched at lice, gone to sick call, felt a march to Perryville or returned home scarred by war. I wear cool stuff for two days then head to Taco Bell for a Nacho Bellgrande. Oh yea, I've read a bunch of books to.

The soldiers who served are the only true authentics so lets drop the name calling and postering. We are all historians, hobbyists and dreamers. That's good enough.

Steve Acker
A farb since 1987 but still trying

[Hank Trent]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

It's a hobby, so what on earth could someone do to force you to sit in a corner.

Note that I said sit in a corner or be farby. Yes, you can be forced into making one of those two choices if you want to remain at an event.

If you show up at an event expecting to drill because that's what historically happened, and everybody decides to go out for pizza instead, you can't drill alone, so the choice is either not drill and be alone, or go out for pizza.

If you show up at an event expecting to interact as if it's 186x, and everyone would rather interact as if it's 200x, the choice is either pretend it's 186x and be alone, or interact as if it's 200x.

You could, of course, plan to attend in such a way that the person you're portraying didn't socialize much, didn't take part in group activities, and so forth. I've done several semi-local timeline events, including one last weekend, among reenactors with amazing inaccuracies, and it works well because in 1870, I wouldn't be interacting with somebody in 1810, or whatever. So it's easy just to do my own thing between me and the crowd. But I'm still not really alone, because the public is always fun to talk with.

But in most cooperative re-creations of historical situations, that kind of isolation just isn't logical. Soldiers tended to drill and live as a group; people tended to interact with each other. And sometimes you can't even be left alone; other reenactors come over to where you are, interrupt you and expect you to interact with them as modern people, and it's either comply or be considered rude.

I've never heard of any other hobby like collecting stamps or model trains where people are prevented from doing what they love because someone else is doing the hobby too

How about team sports? As several people have said, some hobbies are more solitary than others.

I go to reenactments to interact with others, otherwise I'd just stay home and do old fashioned things alone. But as I see it, the hobby is more like a team sport, and team sports require cooperation. A baseball team will expect you to play baseball or sit the game out, no matter how much you might prefer to play football, and rightly so. Otherwise, it'd be chaos rather than cooperation. And I think the various hobbies connected with living history are actually just that different.

As Dan said, sometimes it's hard to guess what'll happen, but after a while, you can get pretty good at figuring out how to read between the lines and predict what an event will actually be like, and therefore whether you want to go. I've made a few way wrong predictions, but not so many lately.

So, back to the original post, rather than showing up to play football and complaining that people are playing baseball, it's easier just to go to a football game.

Hank Trent
hanktrent@gmail.com

[coastaltrash]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

In 2001, when my "mentor" found me, I had just ordered my first jean wool uniform from our company seamstress. That's right, I said ORDERED. When he first met me, I was rocking a Tuscaloosa Gray jacket, sky blue pants, and kepi I keep up in the "Man Cave" as a reminder that in this hobby there are no "know it alls", there are no stupid questions, and really no bad events. Two of the best times I had last year were at mainstream events- Port Hudson and Blakely.

[CJDaley]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

If you truly feel that "EBUFU" events aren't worthwhile,

Sorry pard, I didn't say efubu style events weren't worthwhile. I'm not in the business of bashing events that's the whole point of my post.

I just don't understand why those who attend efubu events have to bash other people's events.

This 'wrong event' theme is just nasty and divisive. It's toxic and elitist.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

It's a hobby, so what on earth could someone do to force you to sit in a corner.

Not HT but HTand I have been together and I think he knows my heart is in his same place....an unwillingness to be immersive to every extent possible and make every effort to move away from the modern will send me off looking for a place to go full history retard by hiding myself every time

I've never heard of any other hobby like collecting stamps or model trains where people are prevented from doing what they love because someone else is doing the hobby too

Stamps and trains are free from the investment of personal contact and dependency in up close conditions, often survival like settings so the human interaction part carries much more weight.


.....want what makes me, or you......or any of us the judge of how someone else should act within the hobby....I just don't understand.....

Come on man...this hobby is all about standards on how one should do things, its called the P/E/C record...and more representative event certainly have standards of all sorts you must abide by ?????????

Did I mention it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby......

Representative accuracy isnt realistic for me. Back to fun and ER visits.

CJ Rideout
Tpa, FL

[PogueMahone]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

So AC'ers what can I say, period like to others without offending the perpetrator of such blatant FARBYNESS? ... We have come along way, maybe a anti-FARB revival is in order.

Thomas,

I think you answer your own question: FARB.

But, I think you also indict yourself with your own words. Why must you say anything? If you are with friends and see something, at most you need only nudge them and point. But, as has been pointed out already, you have chosen to attend this event with the foreknowledge that standards will not be high. You made your bed, now lie in it. If your blood pressure is affected by the sights, don't attend those events. It doesn't matter what good cause is supported or how much opportunity is presented, it isn't healthy for you.

And, how do propose an "anti-FARB revival" without offending farbs?

[Censored by Moderator]

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

Hallo!

"I've never heard of any other hobby like collecting stamps or model trains where people are prevented from doing what they love because someone else is doing the hobby too.....want what makes me, or you......or any of us the judge of how someone else should act within the hobby....I just don't understand....."

IMHO...

I think that is because the enjoyment I would get from collecting or building model trains is a singular endeavor (unless I have some external need for affirmation, confirmation, or even a "Well done" "attaboy" from other collectors on an acquistion or my paint and craft work in sharing with friends or even formal competitions).

"Reenacting" can be different because we can be dependent upon "others" for our experiences (which ultimately can come down to enjoyment and satisfaction).

To borrow from the late Harry Chapin's "Mr. Tanner," a story song about a dry cleaner from Dayton Ohio who gets persuaded by his friends to sing professionally and gets bombed by the critics:

"And he sang from his heart,
And he sang from his soul.
He did not know how well he sang,
It just made him whole"

Some lads can be totally happy in their own impressions and kit, not dependent upon the impressions and kits of those around them- or the doings or goings-on at events.
Others have a need for the greater "authenticity" and historical "emulation" of their own efforts to be reflected back by that of other participants and the activities at events.
And if they are "higher" on the Sliding Scale of Imperfection than other participants and activities by any great degree, it takes a special and talented lad or lassie to overcome it and not to be worn down and out by failed expectations over and over and over.

Three cheers and a tiger to the lads and lassies who can be happy in any setting!

IMHO still...

It is the rare individual who can do it.

Personally, I could do it once when I was newer or new, and did not "know as much" or "know better" (value judgments here, yes). While I do not decry the Mental Pictures of others in what they do and how they do it, I came to be dependent upon like-minded folks, in partnership, to create my Mental Picture with me. And avoid those who did not.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

Chris,

No offense whatsoever taken, I just figure I was the first one to post what any number of hundreds of other forum members would have. But yes, Hank has hit on the crux of the point of that statement. We are all aware of the standards of a particular event before we pack the car. Very infrequently are we sold a bill of goods only to find the reality to be different once we're on the ground (I can think of one event both you and I were at where that happened.) But for the most part 99% of the time we are all aware of what to expect before we pull into the parking lot. As such, it does no good to complain about a bad event or bad impressions after the fact, when you knew beforehand that they would be there.

I agree completely about the problem with elitism in some aspects of our small wing of the hobby. I too have never bought into the concept of AC events being the only good ones. Nevertheless, I do believe that should one wish to put 25,000 miles on their vehicle in a year, they could attend a quality event several times a month using the AC list as their schedule, and would certainly get more out of their weekends than attending the 22nd annual Cooterville hog roast and re-enactment down the road.

As the years have gone by my ability to attend events has waned dramatically. The kitchen passes (from the business, not the wife) have been few and far between, and as such I've had to be very selective about the events I attend. The hog roasts have gone by the wayside, and I am fortunate to have such a buffet of quality of events from which to choose to spend my one or two weekends off a year.

The bottom line as I see it is that this forum is the wrong place to discuss or gripe about blatantly wrong impressions. The standards of this forum and its members has progressed beyond the point where rants such as these accomplish anything other than taking up bandwidth. I doubt I would have said anything in the first place if this had been a "How do I reach these people to help them improve" topic, but instead it was a "Hey guys, look how awful these guys were at this mainstream event I went to last weekend were" topic.

Frankly I would submit that the latter topic, and the topic of this thread smacks more of elitism and the very attitudes for which we have been vilified by the other end of the hobby than anything else. The idea that a member of this board would attend a mainstream event, see bad impressions, and then come running here to make a post such as this makes me sick. (Let me also say that Tom and I are friends, but that certainly doesn't mean that we see eye-to-eye on everything.)

Others mileage will vary but I guess if you don't like to be scared don't go to horror movies.

[CJDaley]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.

More fool me. :)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

Hallo!

To borrow from the what the Bible says about reenacting:

What went ye out into the wilderness to see? A reed shaken with the wind? But what went ye out for to see? A man clothed in soft raiment? Behold, they that wear soft clothing are in kings' houses.

Matthew 11:8

IMHO...

The single greatest cause of unhappiness, politics, friction, strife, conflict, ill-behavior, and acting-out is not standards, but failed expectations.

Gold is... where you find it. When one goes to events and functions with a certain set of expectations for oneself AND for others- there is a Sliding Scale of Imperfection on the part of others that one cannot control unless one knows the players or the agreed/enforced "standards" (that invaribly, inevitably, are often if not NUG, somewhat less in practice and reality than in pre-event "hype").
How far one can experience less than one's expectations ultimately determines the successes and the failures at the end of the weakend.

And, yes, sometimes when going into the wilderness, "plain ignorance" and "plain ridiculous" is what some players chose as their "hobby," their Mental Picture, and what works for them.

For some lads, they eventually "evolve" to the point that they see the "missionary work" of trying to "convert the heathens" by "leading by example" or "reaching out to educate" as a failed philosophy- because while it does at times reach out to the few lads looking to learn and progress it ignores the multitude that are perfectly happy and therefore resistant if not hostile to hearing that what they do, how they do it, have done it for years, and enjoy doing it is "farby," "bad," "wrong," "ridiculous," "misrepresenting history," etc.

IMHO still...

And to be blunt if not harsh as lads pursue Mental Pictures that work for them- if one has personally progressed and evolved to the point that the folks at events (read as events of any kind) are that wrtong, bad, frustrating, annoying, anger-provoking, ridiculous; then, yes, one is "going to the wrong events."

Or going into the wilderness to see men dressed in soft clothing.

In my own evolution, I know I did for several years.

Others' mileage will vary...

Curt

[coastaltrash]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

It's a fool who looks for logic in the chambers of the human heart.

[CJDaley]

Re: Just cannot take it with bad impressions.

I think you're missing the whole point behind the phrase.

Been checking out these forums for years to know that what the original point might have been....and how people use the phrase today aren't the same thing.

Sigh. I've said it a million times. You can't do those things when other people at an event are actively trying to prevent you. I don't want to go to events where I have to either sit in a corner alone, or be farby. And trust me, I've been to a few like that, and they're the "wrong events" for me.

It's a hobby, so what on earth could someone do to force you to sit in a corner. I've never heard of any other hobby like collecting stamps or model trains where people are prevented from doing what they love because someone else is doing the hobby too.....want what makes me, or you......or any of us the judge of how someone else should act within the hobby....I just don't understand.....

Did I mention it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby, it's a hobby......