Perceptions of Scotch-Irish Identity in the US

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Re: Perceptions of Scotch-Irish Identity in the US

As a young boy I remember my great-grandmother telling me about her grandmother Amelia (nee Campbell) Hendrickson. She told me that Amelia and her family came over in 1843 from County Antrim, Ireland. She then said, “We’re lace curtain Irish not that shanty Irish!”

I was also raised hearing both of these terms, my grandfather Brennan, being descended from the Irish-Catholics who came in the 1840s-1850s, taught them to me.

First, I want to say that there are some very good postings here on this subject, and I have only a few things to add as an example.

I have been doing quite a bit of research on a neglected branch of my tree recently, the Gordons. I finally broke through the brick wall and was able to trace them back to Ireland, and then Scotland. To make a long story short, My Gordon line came from Meldrum, Aberdeenshire, and settled in Drumbo, County Down, Ireland. The next generation (two brothers) immigrated to the US in 1789 and settled in Washington County, Pennsylvania. The history of Washington County refers to them as Presbyterians and "Irish Laborers". I think that is important. In the US Census records their place of birth is listed as Ireland, and the next generation records their parent's birth place as Ireland. They quickly assimilated and married into older families of English and German descent. By the time of the Civil War, there was little or no knowledge of either Scots or Irish descent, except the Gordon name.

In almost every book I have read on the history of Scots-Irish immigrants to America, the period references call them "Irish". It really wasn't until the 1840s and 1850s, when there was a desire NOT to be associated with the great influx of Catholic-Irish (Native Irish), that you see these seperate terms being used.

[acook]

Re: Perceptions of Scotch-Irish Identity in the US

"Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America" is an excellent book however, it does not allow much of a glimpse into how a person of scots-irish decent referred to themselves in the 1860s. I am of scots-irish decent and still attend the Presbyterian church in the town my family settled in, before the American revolution. The same family names/ groups from then are present still. It is like this all around where I live, with geographic locales hinting to places back in northern Ireland. This would make me believe that pride in ancestry has kept the term and traditions of scots-irish alive through history. I have always heard my family members refer to themselves as scots-irish, never irish, and a distant relative who was also a member of my local church became colonel of the 126th PVI, he was instrumental in raising a regiment of 90 days men, and had the help of the Presbyterian churches in the county. All the men in the regiment were given a new testament by churches of their home area. A surviving blood stained Presbyterian book inspired Ted Alexander to re-publish the original regimental history with some soldier's letters and biographical information ("The 126th Pennsylvania"). Alexander nor the original author Lt. Col. D. Watson Rowe do not touch on ancestry or origin outside of the town the recruit hailed from, but do touch upon religion. It would appear that if one couples documented religious beliefs of soldiers, the cultures represented in those soldier's homes, and my own background as an example, that many recruits in this regiment were of scots-irish ancestry. With the little period documentation provided/ available no soldier refers to themselves as Irish or Scottish, just Pennsylvanian. It would be interesting to learn more about how these folks spoke about their heritage/ ancestry.

Aaron Cook

[ScottCross]

Re: Perceptions of Scotch-Irish Identity in the US

Here is a reference concerning my g-g-g-grand uncle, Jonathan W. Gordon, from 1860. He later was a Major in the 9th Indiana, and also the 11th US Infantry during the Civil War. Note how his parentage is described in 1860:

Jonathan W. Gordon

(1820-1887)
Indiana

Jonathan W. Gordon was born on August 13, 1820, thirteen of fourteen children born to William Gordon, an Irish laborer, who emigrated to the United States in 1790, and Sarah Walton, a native of Virginia. Gordon was born in Pennsylvania but the family moved west in the spring of 1835, and settled in Ripley County, Indiana. Gordon married Catherine J. Overturf, in April, 1843 and entered took up the practice of the law in 1844. He went to Mexico in 1846 as a volunteer in the third Regiment of Indiana Volunteers. When he returned from the war he studied medicine and received his medical degree in 1851. He then moved to Indianapolis where he resumed the practice of the law in 1852. He was elected to the Indiana House of Representatives in 1856 and again in 1858; and served as Speaker of the House.

[Source: William Turner Coggeshall, The Poets and Poetry of the West: With Biographical and Critical Notices 424 (Columbus, Ohio: Follett, Foster and Company, 1860)][See also, Benjamin S. Parker & Enos B. Heiney (eds.), Poets and Poetry of Indiana 433 (New York: Silver, Burdett and Co., 1900)]

The next source was published after his death in 1887. Note that his father is now refered to as "Scotch" and not Irish, or Scots-Irish.

JONATHAN W. GORDON
Jonathan W. Gordon, next youngest son of William and Sarah (of Scotch and English descent) was born in Washington County, PA, August 13, 1820. His parents emigrated to PA in 1790 and to Ripley County in 1835. Here, young Jonathan, after receiving a common school education, began the study of law, and in 1844 was admitted to the bar. Meanwhile, he had married Miss Catharine J. Overturf.He practised law at Versailles until the beginning of the Mexican war. He joined the volunteer army as a soldier and was commissioned Major ofhis regiment, by his colonel. He went to the Rio Grande with his regiment but was compelled to return on account of ill health. After returning his health was still bad until 1854, when he regained his former strength, but he was warned by his physician not to speak in public. For this reason he changed his course of study and began the study of medecine, of which he already had some knowledge. He attended a course of medical lectures at Rush Medical College during the winter of 1847-48. soon after he graduated in the Medical dpartment of Asbury University. He practised for two years at Moore's Hill, Dearborn County, Ind. While he was elected to the Medical School of Indiana and was made chairman of its committee on Asiatic Cholera.He soon became tired of the medical profession and in 1862 moved to Indianapolis. After some years, he became well known for criminal and medical counsel. After the war, he was employed by Secretary Stanton to defend General Hovey. And in 1873 was emp[loyed with Mr. Porter to maintain the validity of the temperance law, known as the Baxter Bill. Major Gordon died in Indianapolis April 1887.

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Re: Perceptions of Scotch-Irish Identity in the US

Company B, 4th Regiment North Carolina State Troops from Rowan County named themselves the "Scotch Ireland Grays."

[flattop32355]

Re: Perceptions of Scotch-Irish Identity in the US

There can be a difference between what a particular people likes to call themselves, and what the general population may call them.

Those of German ancestry were often called "Dutchmen", which I would hazard is a corruption of "Deutchmann", rather than Germans, or because others thought they were Dutch (Netherlands) natives.

Scotch is somehow easier to say than Scots, so it stuck. Such things happen all the time, with names and other things, in this country.

Modern equivalent: How many ways have we now seen the word "Koran" spelled and pronounced over the last ten years?