is there any evidence of confederate use of william's cleaner round?

[itz3r1k]

the title say's it all. I'm just curious to know if they did or not. Cause i mostly portray confederate and i just wanted to know if i should put one in my cartridge package's. Oh and also i found a picture of a black william's cleaner round. where those common?. Cause the colors i know they used were blue,red,off white and the usual tan color.


thank you,

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: is there any evidence of confederate use of william's cleaner round?

Hallo!

I know of no records indicating Confederates making Williams' Patent bullets.

Being a limited Federal thing, IMHO the only way Confederates would have had access to E. D. Williams' Patent rounds would be to capture Federal ammunition where they had been included in the arsenal packs. Using that as a justification stretches the fiction of having them to the breaking point.

I do not recall a black Williams' cartridge paper. The surviving cartridges that come to mind were blue, red, buff, yellowish, and whitish.

Curt

[itz3r1k]

Re: is there any evidence of confederate use of william's cleaner round?

thanks curt.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: is there any evidence of confederate use of william's cleaner round?

http://books.google.com/books?id=vn3P1QCvC5EC&lpg=PA74&ots=YnZxrmAJ7Y&dq=%22general%20orders%22%20%2B%22confederate%20states%20army%22%20%2B%22adjutant%20and%20inspector%22&pg=PA219#v=onepage&q=captured%20ammunition&f=false

See p. 219 of "General Orders of the Adjutant and Inspector General's Office." A circular issued by Colonel Gorgas in early 1863 reads in part, "2. Care should be taken that ll ammunition in good condition -- not already in charge of some authorized person -- as, for instance, the cartridges of men on either side killed or disabled in action, and all ammunition abandoned by or taken from the enemy -- is collected and saved. If fully fit for servcie, and adapted to the arms of the command to which the ordnance officer collecting it is attached, it should be at once distributed for service -- a report being made, through the proper channel, of the kinds and quantities of ammunition so collected and distributed."

Another issuance in the same volume provides for the compensation of Partisan rangers for any ammunition brought in from the enemy.

Perhaps pursuant to Gorgas's direction, we have the following report of the ANV ordnance office after Chancellorsville (ORs, Series I, Vol. 25, Part I, pp. 818-819):

"ORDNANCE OFFICE, ARMY OF NORTHERN VIRGINIA,
May 20, 1863.

"SIR: I have the honor to report the following as the principal captures in the recent engagements near Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville:

"Artillery. Five 12~pounder Napoleon~, seven 3-inch rifies~ one 10- ounder Parrott, nine caissons, four rear parts of caissons, three battery wagons, two forges, 1,500 rounds artillery ammunition, a large lot of artillery harness, and a large lot of wheels, axles, ammunition chests, & c.

"lnfantry. Nineteen thousand five hundred muskets and rifles (29,500 collected, 10,000 admitted dropped by our men, leaving 19,500 captured), 8,000 cartridge-boxes, 4,000 cap-pouches, 11,500 knapsacks, 300,000 rounds infantry ammunition.

"I have carefully confined myself to what has been reported as collected and counted. This, of course, is considerably less than the amount actually captured, as a number of unarmed men supplied themselves with arms, accouterments, & c., and the army generally helped themselves from the cartridge-boxes of the enemy. Also every day small lots of muskets and rifles are brought in, and without doubt quite a number of arms, & c., are retained in regimental ordnance wagons for future contingencies and not reported. A large quantity of lead has been and is now being collected from the battle-fields. Respectfully submitted. BRISCOE G. BALDWIN, Lieut. Col. and Chief of Ordnance, Army of Northern Virginia."

To the extent that the 300,000 rounds reported captured, and the additional rounds not reported, included Williams cleaner rounds, we can expect that they saw use by the Confederate army. Whether or not its use is appropriate to any Confederate impression for a given event depends on the proximity of a similar circumstance.

[itz3r1k]

Re: is there any evidence of confederate use of william's cleaner round?

thank you for the information. Now here's another question. I portray the N.W 15th arkansas which is in the trans-mississippi department so would it be as common here as it was in the east?. And another question did the 69. round ball cartridge packages have labels? and if they did does anyone know where i can buy some.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: is there any evidence of confederate use of william's cleaner round?

At this point I will respectfully recommend that you do your own research. The Official Records are online and you can get to them via the link I posted. Ditto anything available on Google Books. I'm sure the people who regularly visit this site will be interested in anything you can turn up.