Cavalry Shell on Ebay

[Ken]

This jacket looks awful good to be an original. Look at the close up of the sleeve lining and stamps.

http://cgi.ebay.com/C-W-Cavalry-Shel...QQcmdZViewItem :sarcastic

[Secesh]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

Caveat Emptor....

[mrgrzeskowiak]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

I agree , looks too nice to be original.....

[DougCooper]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

Seller says his has no provenance but traded for it with a dealer who said it was "original." I asked the seller to add some close-ups of lining, buttons, collar, etc. Can't recall seeing an MSJ with sky blue kersey body lining but I guess it is possible. The last button is a bit strange, being rather far off the hem compared with most orginals. Can anyone see the inner pocket?

From Charles Childs' website:

"All enlisted men of the cavalry and light artillery, shall wear a uniform jacket of dark blue cloth, with one row of twelve small buttons on the breast placed at equal distances; stand-up collar, to rise no higher than to permit the chin to turn freely over it, to hook in front at the bottom, and to slope the same as the coat collar; on the collar, on each side, two blind button-holes of worsted lace, 3/8 of an inch wide; one small button on the button-hole; lower button-hole extending back four inches, upper button-hole three and a-half inches; top button and front ends of collar bound with worsted lace 3/8 of an inch wide, and a strip of the same extending down the front and around the whole lower edge of the jacket; the back seam laced with the same, and on the cuff a point of the same shape as that on the coat but formed of the worsted lace; jacket to extend to the waist and be lined with white or grey domet flannel, with an inner pocket in left breast made of same material; 2 small buttons at the underseam of the cuff, as on the coat cuff; one hook and eye at the bottom of the collar, color of lace (worsted), yellow for cavalry, and scarlet for light artillery;..."
Excerpted from the 1865 U.S. Army Quartermaster Manual.

[Miss Dixie]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

I may be completely wrong here, but doesn't the lining, especially the sleeve look a little too clean?

[rogue]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

As to clean linings, it must be remembered that most "original" Civil War shell jackets now on the market spent the War in a warehouse-surplus items, clean and tidy.
Steve Sullivan

[C. Hyson]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

I can't see this uniform being this free from soil, wear, or moth nips without having been in a warehouse as Steve suggested. Even were that so, I find it hard to believe that this uniform simply popped up without the seller having more detailed information as to where it had been or the first dealer passing it on.

[mrgrzeskowiak]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

Maybe one of you guys should bid on it, an if its not what he says it is, send it back......:D.. Thats what the seller told me...

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

Occasionally one of these does indeed pop up. I know of a fellow who purchased an absolutely pristine SA made musician's MSJ with no solid provenance. It looks like it came directly from the arsenal. It also had a $12000 price tag. My point is to caution one not to dont discount the authenticity of a garment simply because it looks too much like new.

The devil is in the details, I have looked at many MSJ's and have not seen one with a blue flannel lining. The vast majority have a domet or jean lining. F.H. Shafer did inspect garments for the Cincinatti arsenal from June `63 to
July `65. The belt pillows are the proper shape and most other contruction details seem to be along the lines of those commonly seem in original garments, however the photos do not show enough detail to say anymore.
Better photos of the collar, button holes, cuffs, sleeve linings, interior facings etc are needed to determine if this is indeed an original MSJ or a good reproduction.

Dave Myrick

[DougCooper]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

The seller was quite insulted by my asking for more info/better photos, even though I agree it is an original. But the bad photos and lack of provenance is costing him money. He told me nobody ever bids on his stuff till the last minute - what a crock.

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

There is (or should be) a direct correlation between how high the auction is going for and how many pictures you put up. I usually say at least one picture per $50.00. A dealer as experienced as this one is should know this.

They have a pristine record (a big plus) but a good record will not get you more bids, it will simply get you that first bid if someone is on the fence.

Honestly, anyone who would bid $2,500 on six pictures with no guarantees deserves to be fleeced. Hard lesson to learn but buyer beware!


Best,

[mrgrzeskowiak]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

Here is what the seller wrote me regarding the coat:



"I have added the photos that you asked for to the posting of the coat. The dealer who I purchased it from would not give up his source. That is the story behind it.........."

The dealer would'nt give up his source? Sounds fishy to me...Also, are the buttonholes machine sewn?

[rogue]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

In defense of the seller, he is from Illinois (adopted land of Honest Abe), Duh!
It appears the coat is a size two (2), an awfully small size to make up if you are going to make it up to be worn by reenactors who tend to be a tad larger in width/girth.
The new close-up of the interior blue cloth looks period, but is just a photo, and it is hard to do the sniff test from a photo.
Funny thing, the market, I will have an officer's frock coat at the Wheaton, Illinois, CW Show this weekend that I ran twice on eBay, and only got a $1025.00 bid on it. So what is it, or anything similar, worth?
Steve Sullivan

[CompanyWag]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

Just a few humble observations on the subject MSJ.

The jacket may well be original but there are a number of details that cause me concern.

1.The cuff trim lacks the arc and depth seen on most originals. This one reminds me of the shallow geometry seen on early Jarnigan production from the 70's.

2. The piecing on the undercollar does not look convincing to me. It looks contrived and like it was done after the fact.

3. The sewing at the top of the sleeve lining is more coarse than I'm used to seeing on originals.

4. The body lining has already been mentioned & really doesn't do much to instill confidence.

5. The buttonholes are corded, but without seeing the backside I can't tell with certainty whether hand-sewn or not.

I get the sense that this may be a repro that has been "enhanced". I have a few other concerns, but in all fairness a closer inspection would probably tell the story here.

Paul McKee

[1st Maine Trooper]

Re: Cavalry Shell on Ebay

In my mind, the seller just confirmed that this item is not an original garment. The flannel body lining is not quilted nor padded. As was mentioned the piecework on the interior of the collar was done after the lining was set. The button holes look very inconsistant from one to the next, it looks as if the top of the collar is folded over and to the inside and whip stitched down. Lastly the stitching where the sleeve lining joins the body lining is very rough, uneven and too far apart.

Dave Myrick