UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

[FloridaConscript]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I'm not saying they need to or will give anything up. I think they are afraid that they will be forced to if they cannot afford the changes everybody proposes. I'm sure you know how wildly expensive conservation is and how overpriced most private conservators are.

Yielding contrl of the collection is certainly a better option than watching it rot right under their noses. This should be about properly displaying and preserving history, however that objective does not seem to be at the top of many totem poles for those in control.

[John-Owen Kline]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Yielding contrl of the collection is certainly a better option than watching it rot right under their noses. This should be about properly displaying and preserving history, however that objective does not seem to be at the top of many totem poles for those in control.

I could not agree with you more, but it is not our decision to make. I came away from my conversations with the decision makers with that fear factor in place. Scott's approach seems to be one of the best in years, and though I certainly don't agree with them in text and tone, I can't help but think that (some of) Mr Deese's comments are a bit more widespread and accepted down there than we want to admit.

[bAcK88]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I could not agree with you more, but it is not our decision to make.

I must disagree with you, for it is our decision to make. Museums have the dual purpose of education and for the preservation of the material objects in their charge so that they may survive for future generations. The UDC are the designated stewards of the material culture within the Confederate Hall and they must do a better job protecting the objects in their charge. If they will not, then it is our responsibility to affect change so that these objects will be around for our grandchildren.

You think its great? What do you know that I don't know? I would say perhaps .5% of the original UDC collection is on display. The rest is de-accessioned or banished to perpetual storage. The MacRae (NCCD) uniform lot was never returned to the collection by the state. Similar things happened to the Ford collection when the CFM purchased the Blockade Runner Museum artifacts.

I realize that most members on this forum love to see cool stuff on display but the simple fact is that all museum objects need to be placed in storage from time to time to "rest". Also those items most likely were de-accessioned because they did not have anything to do with the mission statement of the museum.

On a somewhat related note I had the pleasure of visiting Charleston a couple of weeks ago. I hit most of the historical sites and museums in the city but when I got to the UDC museum, I walked in and then immediately left because I refuse to support an institution that will not properly care for its collection.

[FloridaConscript]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I could not agree with you more, but it is not our decision to make. I came away from my conversations with the decision makers with that fear factor in place. Scott's approach seems to be one of the best in years, and though I certainly don't agree with them in text and tone, I can't help but think that (some of) Mr Deese's comments are a bit more widespread and accepted down there than we want to admit.

How is helping to preserve battlefield land from development any different than helping to preserve the material culture and artifacts? My issue with the UDC is that they cleary are not in a financial position or in a facility that can properly protect this collection.

[Vuhginyuh]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I realize that most members on this forum love to see cool stuff on display but the simple fact is that all museum objects need to be placed in storage from time to time to "rest". Also those items most likely were de-accessioned because they did not have anything to do with the mission statement of the museum.

Bill, that is exactly what John-Owen says they are afraid of. I'm inclined to agree with both of you.

I must disagree with you, for it is our decision to make.

It is their collection and they love it, as do we. It sure looks like the more we beat these poor women over the head the more determined they become. The sad thing is while we toss this ugly baby around, the collection is rotting away from the floor up.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

It is their collection and they love it, as do we. It sure looks like the more we beat these poor women over the head the more determined they become. The sad thing is while we toss this ugly baby around, the collection is rotting away from the floor up.

When the right Southron steps up with a big bucket o' funds in hand and is willing to step back to let the UDC take design control and full credit it will get done.

It is next to impossible to consultatively persuade or negotiate with an antagonist by proposing and speaking conceptually. For every concept you propose, an inverse concept can be countered since both parties are negotiating from the hypothetical. The antagonist is swayed with specific, tangible upsides.

The issues at stake are: Control of the collection / associated message and funding.

You specifically address those issues by leading the discussions with the upfront provision of funds (held in escrow to be disbursed only for preservation of material items - I would bet anything a true, plugged-in Charlestonian could round up a SC law firm with CS ancestry that would pro-bono this) and stepping back and allowing the full spot light on the UDC matrons.

"I am CS son who cares about the preservation of Charleston's CS material culture and I have $10,000 + presently in escrow donated by the SC Living History community as a start for the UDC to retain complete control to decide how to most effectively invest this and future proceeds on direct collection preservation".............willl change hearts.



Chris Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Brandon]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

You think its great? What do you know that I don't know? I would say perhaps .5% of the original UDC collection is on display. The rest is de-accessioned or banished to perpetual storage. The MacRae (NCCD) uniform lot was never returned to the collection by the state. Similar things happened to the Ford collection when the CFM purchased the Blockade Runner Museum artifacts.


That's productive.

John, if you are going to share a source, make sure it contains the information that you want to present within the source. As it has alrady been stated by several people the purpose for museums is not just to show off cool stuff stuck behind glass. It is also to preserve objects that are in danger of being lost forever. If porfessional historians and curators feel that a collection would be better off in storage instead of have kids with cheetos fingers taking pictures with their disposable camaras, then I imagin they have a pretty good reason for it.

I also agree with those who have said that if a collection is not being properly preserved then something needs to be done about it. That doesnt mean that it should be taken away from the organization right away, but the proper measures sould be taken to insure it will be taken care of. I do feel however if the Charleston UDC continues to avoid the responsability for the collection, the collection needs to be transfered to someone who will.

I wasnt trying to produce anything, I was simiply expressing myself.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I also agree with those who have said that if a collection is not being properly preserved then something needs to be done about it. That doesnt mean that it should be taken away from the organization right away, but the proper measures sould be taken to insure it will be taken care of. I do feel however if the Charleston UDC continues to avoid the responsability for the collection, the collection needs to be transfered to someone who will.

Perhaps a new Czar of Historical Integrity and Preservation is in order ? I am guessing your heart is in the right place but how do you plan to sieze control of said private property from its lawful custodian ? (There is an answer to the question) From a good faith negotiations perspective, is the mere suggestion of this in a public thread feeding into the UDC's very fears ? We already know one member is taking this back to the UDC. In terms of the overall picture in a Charleston some say has softened its notarity as the birthplace of the Secesh thinks preservation of Confederate antiquities won't be high on the political will or social priority list.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Brandon]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Well aperently it has been done in the past according to the previous postings. I think we all agree on the main topic here that the Charleston UDC Museum needs to improve its preservation tactics. I'm not sure why everyone has to pick peoples post apart and find something else to argue about. If a group of "like minded indviduals" can not come together to help preserve a collection in one museum how do you plan on saving entire Battlefields such as Gettysburg, Picketts Mill, and Franklin.

[OldKingCrow]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

I'm not sure why everyone has to pick peoples post apart and find something else to argue about.

I am not picking your post apart or arguing. The UDC's preservation efforts, suck. Perhaps in part due to naivety, the other part dogged individualism (I can relate). The other side of the coin is they are deathly afraid of losing control of their collection. Like you said regarding seizing collections...."Its been done before". Go right on ahead and continue to advocate that approach here in this case.

CJ Rideout
Tampa, Florida

[Brandon]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Hahaha Chris I actually wasnt talking about you in this case. It was a general comment about the entire thread itself. I compleatly agree with what your saying.

[elcid01]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Scott- You are a true Charlestonian! thanks for taking up the Cause to see preservation upheld!

[bAcK88]

Re: UDC Museum Charleston S.C.

Any updates on this?

BB