Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Well I can't say that I am shocked 100%. This is not the first time a similar group has "sold out.
The case and point being after years of success and continued maturation to a beautiful and growing park the Cedar Creek Battlefield Foundation did the very same thing with the Mining Company by essentially siding with them on the rezoning procedures on all the core acreage. In either case its important to follow up on all things posted in the Preservation Forum and flex our community's strength. Write in as directed.

[33rdsignal]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Money talks, i just hope that whatever money they got will be worth it and will be able to buy or preserve what other land is available. Like 1stMD said "This is not the first time the gbpa said a casino is a good idea the 1st time around they were pro casino and in return the casino folks paid off the gbpa"s debt on the daniel lady farm"

Does anyone know what GBPA's ledgers look like, it will be interesting to see what gets payed off or bought.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Playing Devil's Advocate for a moment, consider a couple points:

1. Gettysburg prostituted itself to the tourist trade a long time ago. Not the National Battlefield Park, but the area around it.
The "Civil War" is just the biggest draw for the tourist economy. They want to hedge their bets, in case it rains or something.
They are pandering to the lowest common denominator with a Casino. Gettysburg became a third rate Babylon a long
time ago. All I can say about that is we should be glad for Las Vegas, or who knows what Gettysburg would have become by now.

2. We are not in an economic Recession, in the historical sense of the word. This is a full fledged "Depression" and
we are not climbing out of it any time soon. We want to think this has not happened before except for the "Great Depression" and we
fixed what caused that! There were and will be continue to be these type events. 1873 was an example of another really bad one.
The economic downturn of the past five years is beginning to look like the new reality for the current generation.

3. CCBF (Cedar Creek) did what was best for Cedar Creek, or appeared so at the time. You can expect Gettysburg will do
the same. Historical preservation requires a bit of the long view rather than a series of short term decisions that solve
more immediate concerns. It is what they call "Vision."

[BarryDusel]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Hi Craig,
For what it is worth a number of years ago I did a post somewhere to the affect... That I was actually glad that the Confederates never got east of the Susquehanna River into Lancaster County. We've got quite the schintzy , cheap tourist trade built around our Amish Community here . The thought of a Battle being fought here with the attending tourism that would follow added to what we already have just made me glad the Folks in Columbia found some Combustible material. BTW . Thanks for your post. I agree 100% .

[BobSullivanPress]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

If it's such a great idea, why do they insist on calling it a "resort"? Why are trying to hide the fact that it's a casino?

Let's call a spade a spade here.

[FedInf82]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Mr. Sullivan,

The gaming license for which Mason-Dixon is applying is technically called a "Category Three Resort License." So, while I agree that they may be trying to put a nice face on it, calling it a resort is not, purely speaking, a misrepresentation. That it is a resort license, however, is key to why this proposal would be detrimental to the Park. It will inevitably siphon off money from the community; consumers will likely wish to spend all their money in one and place local establishments (restaurants, bars, &c.) will lose customers to the casino. The empty promise of jobs for Adams County will, I fear, only lead to the closing of local businesses and further economic hardships for one of America's national treasures. This added to the depredation of park makes the entire proposal heinous and unconscionable.

The Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board is holding public hearings next week, August 31 and September 1. If you wish to have your thoughts made known to them, you can submit your comments at speakforthefallen.org.

I am, very respectfully, your obedient servant,

[OldState]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

I believe the casino is a bad choice to solve a serious problem and I think we are forgetting the core reason for this whole thing. I am through Gettysburg at least once a month with my job and the locals are very concerned. The town is bankrupt despite the tourism trade because only 45% of the property owners are paying taxes. The college, park, seminary, etc occupy most of the property in the region yet don't pay taxes. That kind of economic model just doesn't work. I think us preservation minded folks need to come up with some alternatives rather than simply complaining. Gettysburg is in SERIOUS financial trouble. Without viable alternatives, I believe the Casino will go through as the town seems to be in a sort of panic mode.

[Remnant]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

I think us preservation minded folks need to come up with some alternatives rather than simply complaining.

I concur with Denis. One of the biggest challenges to the preservation movement is changing our reputation as nay-sayers and beginning to offer hard-numbers along with ideas for viable alternatives. Too often we run from one fire to another putting them out, without stepping back to efficiently and effectively choose our battles and plan our way-forward.

Gettysburg's economy is based largely on the tourist-trade, as it has been since the late 19th century. With the devaluing of agriculture in our American economy and culture, the cancer that is Washington DC's sprawling bedroom communities, and the weight of the current Recession Gettysburg needs to diversify. Do I think the casino is the answer to their problems? Aboslutely not! But very little is sacred in a secular nation, and plying the emotions can only work for so long...

The business of Heritage Tourism is aimed at the older (and often inherently wealthier) portion of our society; these are the same people the Casino hopes to draw.

I do not have an answer of how to solve this. For the time being, I suppose fighting it with everything we have (as we did last time) in the interim. But, as with the last time, the lingering idea of the Casino will not end. We need to be looking for other solutions and alternatives and end the NEED of the casino.

Sincerely,

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

But, as with the last time, the lingering idea of the Casino will not end. We need to be looking for other solutions and alternatives and end the NEED of the casino.

That 'need' by a community, namely money, won't end- ever. So long there is a desperate need for an area to grow, money will be needed to do so.

Perhaps there should be a limit in certain instances for a community to say 'enough growth is enough- we're a sacred battlefield, not a vacation playground'.

In many parts of Europe where history abounds, the population has the guts to weigh money and progress versus potentially losing their nation's heritage (From what I had seen, more often that in the US). Unfortunately, Americans are so progress-bent that in certain situations, we lose what little remains of our heritage for a quick buck. Is 'progress' always so good?

Yes, tourism has been going on there since Lincoln himself visited the place after the battle there. Still this fact shouldn't allow cheap and junky shops to ply their tourist rubbish upon the visiting populace... but hey, ripping people off is the 'American way'. :sarcastic

I'm all for a man to make an honest dollar, but in certain situations like the special heritage/nature/significance of Gettysburg there needs to be a caveat on a heritage/cultural level much like Europeans' attitude is about preservation. Even the locals in G-burg need to realize that progress in their area must be tempered with deeper thinking, lest the area sell its soul forever.

I was in Gettysburg 2 weeks ago and the town going into panic mode due to bad economy seems to be a likely case from what I heard and saw. That fault lies not just with a bad overall economic situation in general, but with the ballot box and participation in getting a new local government if the old one has failed them so. Yet money plays a factor here too. Sad.

Oh, the irony... :confused_

[dusty27]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

It may be over-simplifying the situation a tad, but as with most preservation, we (preservationists) aren't denying that the area may need some kind of economic help. I just think that, much like the WalMart issue at Wilderness, there are other parts of the town/county that these large developments can be built, areas that aren't historically significant or don't detract from historic sight lines of the battlefields, which are important to interpretation.

[JimConley]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Someone e-mailed this to me this morning. For those of you that have not seen it, I thought it was very nicely done.
Great footage of the battlefield too!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nubs99Vz_yg

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Any news from last night's hearing?

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

Wick,

Here's one report concerning the hearing that porvides the basic w/w/w/w:

http://www.philly.com/inquirer/breaking/news_breaking/20100901_Hearing_reveals_divisions_over_Gettysburg_casino.html

and another with a slightly different perspective (know thy enemy):

http://www.casinogamblingweb.com/gambling-news/casino-gambling/battle_begins_at_public_hearing_over_gettysburg_casino_site__55644.html

[hiplainsyank]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

The sad thing about the "pro-jobs and taxes" things is that these are lies. According to one NPS ranger last weekend, the businesses in town now can't get all the people they need for their jobs. Gettysburg's unemployment rate is lower than the national average according to my last check. Plus, when they talk about lower taxes, they come from places the rates aren't that high anways. And besides, they will need to start paying more taxes after awhile for the social costs that are proven to occur once a casino moves into a small town: higher rates of abuse, suicides, bankruptcies, foreclosures, etc.

The sad fact is the average casino job pays $13,000 a year. Poverty wages, still eligible for state assistance, and not paying any more than the tourist businesses that can't fill all their employment needs. They will take jobs and business from downtown.

I was just at Gettysburg a week ago after traveling from my current home in small-town Mass and where I grew up in small-town Ohio. I lived in small town Kansas for ten years. Those towns would sell their first-born to have business districts and and as few for sale signs as Gettysburg has. They really don't know how good they've got it compared to other small towns across America! Half of the buildings in the former towns are empty, while Gettysburg is nearly 100% full. And when one goes out of business another pops right back in. There are for sale signs all over the place in the former towns, much fewer in Gettysburg and I know they're not in many people's price ranges.

I'm sorry that the borough may have problems, but they need to go traveling around the country to get a real look at how darn good they actually have it...

[BenjaminLDavis]

Re: Stabbed in the back by the GBPA

John et al,

You start thinking it can't get any worse, and it does.
The Pie in the Sky will remain aloft here, and even Poague will not be able to take it from the windowsill. The promises are
empty. Look at Las Vegas, or Laughlin, Nevada - they are both caught in the depressed economy, there is no stimulus to be
had. Add to that this is taking place so close to the 150th, and it is a massive thumb in the eye to all who take the long view
of what our country must hold dear. Our children and grandchildren will be the losers, nationwide, should these false dreams of
avarice be brought to fruition.
Hellfire and damnation.