Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

[dave81276]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

I agree with Dusty; I hadn't understood the article fully. As a child I grew up swimming in a country club pool. Today, much like Mr. Kindred, I consider my money wasted if spent on buying friends by joining a country club. I probably overstated my point by defending a country club. I simply found the "eat-the-rich" attitude of this thread to be counter-productive to battlefield preservation. It is our duty as progressive reenactors to change the attitude of outsiders to reenacting. In my community, until recently rural, many large farmers have had to sell out to developers. Their farms could not produce enough revenue to pay property taxes. When offered a couple of million dollars, they naturally chose development. Then they were vilified by historical preservationists. Until preservationists act in a friendly manner towards property owners, they will be viewed in a bad light. It is our duty as progressive reenactors to extend this olive branch and prove to America we are not the hung-over yahoos they see at mainstream events. Partnership, not last-ditch rhetoric, is the answer. Only a slim minority of corporations are Wal-Marts and Lowe's; most hold some interest in the community in which they operate.

Dave Eggleston

[Justin Morris]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

Being born and raised in Franklin, and still living there, I know that the type of rich people that reside around the Franklin Country Club and the surrounding area, just don't care about preservation or the Battle of Franklin. Everyday in Franklin, more ground is lost to construction and development. When these country club type get involved and start saying they will campaign against anyone running for political office, then everyone gets scared, all of you know this. In the next few years, after getting a little bit older and settled down, I hope to be one of these local politicians. All I have to say, is my God have mercy on the people that try to tear up my battlefield and historic sites. I just pray its not too late by then. Everyone needs to get involved and be active in preservation. I had always been sitting in the background reading about battlefields in Virginia being developed, and while sad, I never felt a connection, but not its in my back yard. I know that I for one am going to try to help fight this and get involved. I just hope others do the same.

Justin Morris

[dusty27]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

I simply found the "eat-the-rich" attitude of this thread to be counter-productive to battlefield preservation. It is our duty as progressive reenactors to change the attitude of outsiders to reenacting. In my community, until recently rural, many large farmers have had to sell out to developers. Their farms could not produce enough revenue to pay property taxes. When offered a couple of million dollars, they naturally chose development. Then they were vilified by historical preservationists. Until preservationists act in a friendly manner towards property owners, they will be viewed in a bad light. It is our duty as progressive reenactors to extend this olive branch and prove to America we are not the hung-over yahoos they see at mainstream events. Partnership, not last-ditch rhetoric, is the answer. Only a slim minority of corporations are Wal-Marts and Lowe's; most hold some interest in the community in which they operate.

Dave, I'm not anti-country club. I am anti-snob but that is not exclusive to country clubs. I agree with your points above. In this case, however, we are not talking about these folks' homes. We are talking about their "playground".

From what I've heard about Franklin, development seems pretty easy to do. Hopefully this will change with people getting involved like Justin. This land purchase is a GIFT to the city. It would more than pay for itself in the long run. The country club benefits it's members and staff only. The battlefield would benefit the entire city.

[dusty27]

Great letter from SFB

Areas along Highway 31 could serve as
interpretive locations for Civil War history

To the Editor:

Your op-ed piece of May 2, “Franklin offers much more than battlefield,” makes several good points about Franklin’s historic sites and hometown feel that our visitors are pleasantly surprised to discover. And I am in complete agreement that Historic Downtown Franklin and the many restored historic homes here have a special appeal for our visitors.

Over the years, the efforts to maintain a vibrant and attractive downtown Franklin have been well justified, and well done.

But later in the piece, I believe you completely miss the point with your editorial question of “Should Franklin reclaim its battlefield or is the battlefield’s significance lost under years of houses and businesses, streets and cars? Are the histories of the lives lived on the site [since the war years] of any less value than that of those who died there? That is the question, along with where the money comes from and how much taxpayers and private entities are willing to spend to reclaim the land, clear of its present use, and restore it to its past.”

I believe that proposition misstates the real issue of local battlefield preservation. There may be a few Civil War sites that need to be “reclaimed,” but the real question is whether we should continue to spend public monies to place new development on the few open, undeveloped battlefield parcels that remain in Williamson County, or should we save those sites that define our past, for study by our grandchildren and future visitors.

My point is that there are many parcels of our battlefields in Williamson County that are pretty much as they were during the war years, or are more open and park-like now than they were then. If we act wisely, they can be kept for multiple-use, open park space for all time. These parcels can be collectively interpreted to tell the Civil War story of Williamson County. They don’t need to be cleared of their present use. They only need to be protected from being destroyed by new, publicly funded development — and then kept mowed so that they don’t become forests.

Our group prepared a brief report of remaining battlefield parcels for the Central Franklin Planning project last summer. The report lists 30-some battlefield locations in Williamson County that are mostly near Highway 31 from Brentwood to Thompson’s Station. Being near a U.S. highway may qualify the purchase of these parcels by local governments for matching funds from federal programs. You and your readers can download the report at www.franklin-stfb.org.

One of those parcels is, in fact, Harlinsdale Farm. When your article mentions that Harlinsdale Farm is not a battlefield, you must have been thinking just of the Nov. 30, 1864, battle. During 1863 and 1864, there were three other battle actions in Franklin alone, and several others in the county, when the contending armies clashed in our very back yards.

It was during Hood’s retreat on Dec. 17, 1864, from the Battle of Nashville when Harlinsdale Farm became a Civil War battlefield as the Federal cavalry tried to flank Hood’s blocking force near Spencer Creek and the Harpeth River in order to turn the Confederate retreat into a rout. If kept as an open park, Harlinsdale can serve both as open green space that greets our future visitors to Franklin — and as an interpretive location for our Civil War history, as well.

On Franklin’s far south edge there is another Dec. 17 battlefield along Highway 31 that can serve as a similar rural vista for visitors traveling from the south. It is listed in the “Civil War Atlas” as the Battle of the West Harpeth and began a few hundred yards south of Coleman Road. The battlefield stretches two and one-half miles southward to the West Harpeth River. The heaviest fighting flared at the north and south ends of this area, and those two areas are currently mostly farm fields.

Franklin is now considering extending its Urban Growth Boundary to include this land in its city limits. If that is done, I would hope that the land use plan for this area would include a parks plan that protects these open green spaces as a visual gateway into Franklin as well as an interpretive location for our Civil War history.

As for the cost of preserving our remaining open battlefield parcels and having gateway vistas into Franklin, and who pays for it, I would suggest reading “The Economic Benefit of Parks and Open Space” by Will Rogers, president of The Trust for Public Land. This report can be downloaded at www.tpl.org.

Among several others, it cites studies of this cost issue in Woodbridge, Conn., and Bowdoinham, Mass., where their civic leaders are convinced that “land conservation is often less expensive for local governments than suburban-style development.” Bowdoinham selectman George Christopher goes as far as to say, “Undeveloped land is the best tax break the town has.”

I believe those economic arguments apply to Williamson County, as well.
Sam Huffman
Treasurer, Save The Franklin
Battlefield Inc.
8212 Wikle Road E.
Brentwood 37027

[Matthew.Rector]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

The fact that some country club members are upset doesn’t surprise me in the least. It shouldn’t surprise them then, that I (and many others) am upset that I have to see the nearby country club and golfers every time I visit the McGavock cemetery.

The 140th anniversary of the battle is rather timely with this situation going on. I am hopeful that the activities associated with that will increase awareness to the public and residents on how important saving this piece of land really is.

To many people's surprise, Franklin became a Preserve America Community this past spring. I think the city's involvement with this piece of land would definitely reiterate to others why this town was designated as such. It would be another (and rare) example of Civil War site preservation for the community. In addition to the numerous other reasons on why saving this land is the right reason, saving it would give Franklin and other school children another place to visit that is associated with a battle that happened in their back yard.

[MissAnnaMae]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

[QUOTE=Matthew Rector]The fact that some country club members are upset doesn’t surprise me in the least. It shouldn’t surprise them then, that I (and many others) am upset that I have to see the nearby country club and golfers every time I visit the McGavock cemetery.

During 2003 we volunteered our services on two occasions to clean the McGavock cemetery (the family part) on behalf of Carnton Plantation. We laughed over the number of golf balls found amoung the headstones. Maybe we should have gathered them up and sold them to the golfers making their rounds and generated a little cash for the SFBA.... :tounge_sm

[tenfed1861]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

I'm not sure how many of you like him,but let's get Micheal Moore involved, :wink_smil .He'll make those little rich freaks feel stupid, :D .They can use the walking anyway.Ten bucks says that they'd support destroying Arlington if it will make them more rich.But how does that Bible qoute go:"It's easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a neddle then it is for the rich to get into Heaven".
How would they feel if their golf course was haunted by the ghost of those brave men? :wink_smil
Cullen Smith

[DougCooper]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

Of course they are opposed, it's their country club and they are members. Folks about to lose something, especially part of their lifestyle, rarely take a long view of things. The older one get's the narrower becomes the comfort zone.

Some of them may be asking: "Why now, why us?" and may feel they are scapegoats for the gross missed opportunities of the past. Preservation is most effective when we can create a win-win (or at least a win-not lose much) situation. Hopefully someone is looking at alternatives...and if I was a neighboring golf course/club...I would be all over these guys with offers.

Anyway, they could not raise the funds and that should be that. When you write e-mails or letters to officials and politicians on this issue, DO NOT slam country club members. Extoll instead how we all win by preserving/reclaiming this land.

Speaking of Franklin 140 Event and Preservation - has a role been designated for us on the preservation front? Anybody looking at that yet? Anything specific to be targeted for fund raising efforts by participants? The mind boggles when you think of the donations that could be raised if 1/10 of the paticipants went all out among friends, coworkers, businesses, etc. Matt? Dusty? Doug, the Save the Franklin Battlefield site is down. I will check into any efforts they are making currently and maybe we can coordinate something here. - Mike Chapman

[PogueMahone]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

http://www.williamson-franklinchamber.com/

Take a moment to learn more about the enemy. Interesting statistics.

I've lived in Williamson County since 1968. They didn't care then, either.

The local economy is booming. Real estate development is rampant. The county is not desperate for money or looking to diversify. Selling tourism to the city as a money maker is a waste of breath. They can make more on building permits alone than they would take in with tourism.

The hypocrisy is that they promote "Historic Franklin" on highway signs and the police cars. The police uniforms bear patches that carry the image of the Confederate Monument on the square. (They got sued for racism over this a few years ago, but won the right to wear them.) But, in this case, the "not in my backyard" attitude applies to historic preservation, not trash.

Back in the '70's, some children of Club members were drinking in the parking lot and decided to rearrange the stones in the Confederate Cemetary. They destroyed several beyond repair. Their mommies and daddies bought them out of trouble with the police. Club members are not necessarily among the richest in the county, but have the oldest ties to the county.

It should be pointed out that there is another course less than a mile from this one, named for General Forrest no less, and at least 4 others within a 15 minute drive of this one. They won't win on the argument that they have no place else to drink, er, play.

You'd have to live here to understand the way things are.

[dusty27]

Battle has its allies....

Heritage tourism would help local economy



By CLINT CONFEHR / Review Appeal Senior Staff Reporter Heritage tourism can be a lucrative way to develop a city’s economy, according to historic preservationists who point to information from battlefield parks.

Such concerns were raised Thursday and will be discussed again Tuesday when the economics of historic preservation will be explained by Don Rypkema of Place Economics in Washington, D.C.

His discussion will be for a 5:30 p.m. workshop for the Franklin Board of Mayor and Aldermen in the Police Department training room at City Hall on Tuesday.

Rypkema is also to speak at the annual meeting of the Heritage Foundation of Franklin and Williamson County which, Alderman Dan Klatt said Thursday, has a grant to pay for the prioritization of battlefield places in Franklin.

Guidelines for preservation and development along the Columbia Avenue corridor are being developed for the city, Klatt told four dozen members of the Country Club of Franklin who met Thursday to voice concerns about a challenge from Rod Heller of Washington, D.C., a historic preservationist and descendant of the family which built Carnton Plantation.

His challenge to the community was to help transform the country club’s golf course into the re-creation of the eastern flank of the Battle of Franklin, something the club members oppose. Heller bought the fairways, greens, clubhouse, pool and parking lot for $5 million from a previous owner who planned to build homes for sale.

“Preservation makes good sense,” Klatt told the club members. “Help us select priorities.”

Alderwoman Pam Lewis agreed.

Until Franklin’s city board “had the vision” for preservation brought by Mayor Tom Miller’s leadership, there “was a regime that was bound and determined to develop,” she said. “Now, the pendulum is swinging back.”

Lewis, who lives in the historic Harrison House across from Winstead Elementary School on Columbia Pike, Alderman Robert Kriebel of West Main Street and Alderman Ernie Bacon of Fourth Avenue also attended the discussion Thursday night in the clubhouse at the Country Club of Franklin.

“I never received an answer to my question as to the benefits to the residents of ... Franklin in purchasing the golf club,” said Vickie L. Riggin of Lawnview Lane.

Miller replied by asking about the value of the Grand Canyon.

“Comparing a natural wonder of the world to a 100-acre field in Franklin is really comparing apples to oranges,” Riggin said.

Franklin has Civil War sites that draw tourists, but the city does not properly market them for tourists, Riggin said.

“If the city committed some funds to fixing up the existing Civil War sites and marketing them, this would have more of an impact in drawing tourists,” she said.

Civil War heritage tourists look for battlefields, says Robert Hicks, a volunteer tour guide at Carnton.

Information provided by Lewis shows:

At Fredericksburg and Spotsylvania National Military Park in Virginia, three-fourths of the visitors say they came because of the battlefield and two-thirds stay overnight. Last year they spent more than $20 million in that area.

Because of Gettysburg National Military Park in Pennsylvania, visitors spent more than $120 million in that area during a recent year.

The Battle of Franklin is seen by many Civil War historians as more important than the Battle of Gettysburg, partly because it came later, but Gettysburg gets more attention because President Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address, according to Ed Bearss, retired chief historian for the National Park Service.

[PogueMahone]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

Don't be fooled. Mr. "Preservation Mayor" Miller just endorsed some major construction on the only green space left on Columbia Avenue available for purchase. Pam "Not in my backyard" Lewis opposed the construction of Winstead School across from her house, not because it was built on the CS staging grounds for the assault, but because it "ruined her view".

I will give Miller props for one thing, though. Remember the new Kroger/Target they are building at the foot of Winstead Hill? When Wal-Mart sent in preliminary plans, he sent them a packet explaining the concessions they would have to make in design and normal construction and they withdrew the request.

Of course, those requirements were in place before he came into office. He just mailed them.

[tenfed1861]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

I'm glad I live in a place that is trying to re-build.I'd go insane with those rich sh!theads(pardon my french.)They will always complain."If you won't let me build on this site where 2,500 men died,then I won't make $50,000."Like I said,they worship money.The rich will always complain.I hate yuppies :baring_te !Will sell out thier history for money.I hope they one day learn that money is a piece of fabric,but blood and flesh is a life with a story.But they will laugh and make snoddy comints(sic).
Cullen Smith

[celtfiddler]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

“We don’t think the real interest is preservation of battlefield,” group spokesman Mike Benton, 1217 Buckingham Circle, said during the city board’s period for public comment. “We think it’s the preservation of land in front of Carnton (Plantation).”

Why shouldn't Carnton get land back that was probably part of the original estate? I'd like to here one of the club members answer.

"More than 300 families will pay a “social cost” if the Country Club of Franklin loses its course and the city will lose property and sales tax revenue generated by the course, Benton said. Furthermore, people employed by the club will lose their jobs."

Let's say each family has 4 members for the sake of making the math simple--1200 people lose their playground. Could one of the members please define social cost? Are they trying to say they can't network amongst themselves somewhere else? As far as sales tax revenue--I highly doubt the city is getting that much from that small of a patronage. Any increases in tourism spending related to creating the battlefield park I would think potentially be greater than any sales tax revenue lost from the club. The potential increase in historic tourism I would think would create new jobs, most likely in excess of what would be lost in closing the country club.

Something these country club folks keep forgetting--the land is already sold. It's kindness from a member of the preservation community that is allowing them to stay open right now.

Kimberly Schwatka
Please sign your posts - Mike Chapman

[Skeet]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

Well, On the flip side I don't care about a golf course and never will. The mind set of these morons is beyond belief. Cpl Dan Morgan 10thVA(IVR)

[JimConley]

Re: Some country club members oppose [Franklin] battlefield restoration

Let's all run in for the big buck! :angry_smi I don't get that. Can that really make one happy? If so, that happiness will surely not last. I live in small town in southwestern Ohio where the only history that blesses us is John Hunt Morgan moving through our main street while moving north on his great raid. I have been a resident here of 11 years now and up until lately, have never really had to complain. The ground much resembled the way it may have in the 19th century outside of a grocery store and a few very small suburban communities. Because of those communites, many workers of the City of Cincinnati find their way here to get away from the craziness of the city! Now, we are seeing change. Our population has close to doubled in only the last few years, all the roads are being widened from two lanes to four and five! What is this monstrosity?! Maybe five years ago, a new grocery and "hypermarket" was added in an old corn field, soon followed by a hotel, Tractor Supply Company, and the Home Depot. It's hard for me to imagine that such a small town can actually support these businesses. Now, plans have been unvieled to build a Wal-Mart and Lowes to compete directly accross the new five lane road from the Home Depot and Hypermarket. Why? Does this entail any necessity to the living conditions of this town? Hell no, it does not! Corn fields are being sold off left and right for the almighty dollar, making space for strip malls, golf courses, and additonal gas stations to the already 9 or 10 we have within a range of 3 square miles! Developers of any purpose need to come to the conclusion that the reason people move away from cities is to get away from cities! If our living conditions were so "inconvienient," we would have stayed in Cincinnati or found another place. It's a fight that we can do little about, but at least the fight is there. Maybe I'll run for the youngest chairman of the town chamber . Golf courses and strip malls alike, do we really need so much? How long will it take people to realize that their community is being lost and anything that was once unique will be overshadowed by urban sprawl? As a NPS employee of the Chancellorsville battlefield said in Wide Awake's production of Saving Civil War Battlefields, it will not be long before America becomes, "Islands of green and seas of concrete." Why?!