Interstate 81 Lawsuit

[Micah Trent]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

In my personal experience with these laws, some agencies do not take them seriously. Federal Highways and the FCC (cell and communications towers) often feel that they are somewhat above the law and at times try to either ignore or avoid these laws that protect historic resources. Believing that they are providing a public service, they frequently fail to recognize the importance of historic resources and try to avoid having to look at alternatives.

Eric

Sadly, it's not just the State Highway Department of Transportations or FCC that think they can go above the law, but water/sewage managements and energy cooperatives as well. Looked at what happened at Harper's Ferry. An axcellent example!

[HistoryGeek]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

I met the Deputy County Adminisrator for Rockingham County, Va. He said that the county tries it's best to avoid building on FARMLAND. What about the battlefields? It's like no one cares about property that has survived for 140+ years and now they want to destroy it. The way peoples' thought processes have changed has really effected the Battlefield preservation. My generation does not care. Some people believe, like me, that if we don't preserve this land what are our children and grandchildren gonna see? We need to act drastically if the battlefields are to survive. But what can we do to ensure their survival?

HistoryGeek
Evan Hunsberger

[Micah Trent]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

As I was re-reading this thread, I was wandering, besides I-81 itself, how much right a way does the state own besides that. Right a way being the land from where the shoulder of the road ends to a certain line weather it be stopped by trees, fence, or rock.
I know here in Kentucky, the state usually has 15 to 20 yards of space available on both sides of the interstate to allow room for future projects if needed. I was curious if it was similar in Virginia. From what I understand it varies from state to state.
If you really think about it, an interstate, for the most part, can take up to three quartes of a football field or more...that is with road and right a way. That is a huge chunk.
Your thoughts?
If I am not making sense...let me know. I will try to clearify a bit more. Thanks!

[HistoryGeek]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

As I was re-reading this thread, I was wandering, besides I-81 itself, how much right a way does the state own besides that. Right a way being the land from where the shoulder of the road ends to a certain line weather it be stopped by trees, fence, or rock.
I know here in Kentucky, the state usually has 15 to 20 yards of space available on both sides of the interstate to allow room for future projects if needed. I was curious if it was similar in Virginia. From what I understand it varies from state to state.
If you really think about it, an interstate, for the most part, can take up to three quartes of a football field or more...that is with road and right a way. That is a huge chunk.
Your thoughts?
If I am not making sense...let me know. I will try to clearify a bit more. Thanks!

I think Virginia has 20 yards on either side. Yeah, but as it said in the Article they were going to expand it to 8-12 lanes. That takes out alot of land if you think about it. Plus they have to add the right of way.

HistoryGeek
Evan Hunsberger

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

Bob,

The drawback to that system is the vulnerability of the central warehouse/distrubution center.

That was brought home rather forcefully this past week when the roof of the nearby WalMart distribution center suffered a partial collapse over the refridgerator area. WalMart (up here in Maine) started to tun out of dairy products almost at once, and from other frozen items in the following day or two. The roof collapse was due to snow accumulation. It was partially repaired in order to get things back up and running, when another section collapsed.

There are still too many trucks on the road, and there is NO WAY that the costs associated with those trabsport systems don't offset the costs of stocking items in advance. It is especially difficult to rationalise the continued use of trucks, in ever increasing numbers, against the damage they cause to the highways, damages that all the fees paid still do not adequately address.

Trains are still safer, more economical, and far better than trucks for the movement of goods in vilume. We need to start limiting truck numbers and sizes to those for local use, and transferring the shipping of goods to rail. Use rail to move goods to the local distribution point, and smallr trucks to take it to the stores.

Respects,

Beleive me Tim I understand the issues with the system. I come from a family of truckers. I have run distribution networks and I have done disaster recovery for a living. And from a risk standpoint 'just-in-time' has a huge number of issues. the problem is most Fortune 500 companies, even though they've seen disasters strike others think, It won't happen to us or It cost more for disaster recovery than the cost of the disaster. But just to use your Wal-Mart example. Wal-Marts thinking is 'we can always truck in product from the next closest distribution center and the likelyhood of a disaster striking multiple centers is single digits (and they right in that) at the most.

As too too many trucks? A single Wal-Mart warehouse can fill (and empty) hundreds of trucks in a day. The costs associated with the real estate alone (to increase the size of the stores to have more storage space) is more than offset by a centralized distribution point. It is usually built where real estate is less expense, zoning laws are more relaxed, labor force works cheaper and by centrailing and specializing the warehouse gets synergies a single stor would never get.

I agree that trains are a superior mode of transportation for long distance bulk shipments. However for LCL (less than carload) or short haul shipments trains stopped being profitable in about 1960 or so. A single truck will haul between 25 & 30 tons. A rail car will move between 70 and 100 tons fully loaded. Most locations aren't going to take 70 tons worth of product in a single day. Nor does the railroad want a car sitting any longer than necessary (that cost money) to be unloaded and finally very very few locations actually sit of rail spurs anymore so the product STILL, even if moved by train, unlaoded into a truck for it's final delivery points.

it is interesting that in the last decade or so the two industries (rail & truck) have gotten together to do what they each do best (read cost effectively) in an allaince as opposed to competetors.

The big national trucking companies have moved away from cross country driving to intermodal (truck or container is put on a rail car and move distances over 1000 miles) and concentrated on short haul movement of goods by drivers.

While rail companies have moved away from trying to service every LCL or CL (car load) customer along their lines. So they move large loads long distances (what they are economically good at) and leave local deliveries (for the most part) to trucks, regioanls and short lines.

Like it or not, for economic reasons the boxcar on the siding days are for the most part over and never coming back.

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

Thanks Bob,

Just wanted to know how you knew such things. You explained it well. Sorry I'm not familiar with grocery store inventory levels in upstate NY. I still don't believe that Americans are 72 hours away from FAMINE as stated earlier.

Sorry Dusty, didn't mean to snap and you are right, STARVATION isn't 72 hours away but a massive dislocation and major inconvenience is less than that away. As little as 24 hours causes major headaches and political reprocussions in some more populated regions. I'm sure supermarkets in a metro areas like NYC, DC or Chicago see SEVERAL trucks every day to stay even with demand. And then if the system breaks you have the attendent problems of catch up (goods stacked up in tranist have to be moved to their destinations so the consumer can restock).

No Americans wouldn't stave in 72 hours if the system breaks but they will SCREAM like they are.

Remember most of them aren't used to living for a "whole weekend" on nothing but hardtack, saltpork and coffee/water, like we do.

Just look at the run on supermarkets when a big snowstorm (or little one for you southerners) is in the offing. People want to make sure they 'stock up' so that they have everything they need. Heaven forbid something major actually DOES happen. You'd see the local (or national depending on the extent of the problem) screaming for someone's head to roll.

[HistoryGeek]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

Ok, it is true that we can't build spur lines every where and that would be a problem to. But Virginia wants to be the state that has the biggest interstate artery on the East Coast so we should step out of their way. I mean some of their ancestors were in the War or in some kind of war I bet. I have a lot of ancestors in the Civil war on both sides. I guess having a love for history runs in the family. :)

HistoryGeek
Evan Hunsberger

[Bob 125th NYSVI]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

Ok, it is true that we can't build spur lines every where and that would be a problem to. But Virginia wants to be the state that has the biggest interstate artery on the East Coast so we should step out of their way. I mean some of their ancestors were in the War or in some kind of war I bet. I have a lot of ancestors in the Civil war on both sides. I guess having a love for history runs in the family. :)

HistoryGeek
Evan Hunsberger

Jeez, who said we didn't love history. And nobody said that we shouldn't discuss this thing.

But do you realize that every square inch of this planet has had history occur on it at one point or another. Not all of it has been big history (like major battles), in fact much of it has been small history, sometimes very small history, but history never the less.

So just how far back to we preserve?

Do you also realize that there are VASTLY more people in America (and the world) today than there was in 1865? They and the infrastucture to support them needs to go somewhere.

So now what "history" becomes more important than today's people and the history they are creating?

Its all a balancing act. So how much "big" history land is actually going to be used up in this expansion or is it just 'Well Jackson's men walked here' type of land. They walked a LOT of places and some of that land current supports pools or pink flamingos.

We only maintain creditablity by being sensible in what we mobilize to save and realizing that not ALL of it is going to be saved, nor in the long run should it be.

And those rail spurs you admit can't go everywhere, if you tried some of them would run over 'historical land'.

Just like you house and driveway sit on 'small' historical land. History happens all the time everywhere. Just because it doesn't get written up in a history book doesn't mean its not history.

[HistoryGeek]

Re: Interstate 81 Lawsuit

Jeez, who said we didn't love history. And nobody said that we shouldn't discuss this thing.

But do you realize that every square inch of this planet has had history occur on it at one point or another. Not all of it has been big history (like major battles), in fact much of it has been small history, sometimes very small history, but history never the less.

So just how far back to we preserve?

Do you also realize that there are VASTLY more people in America (and the world) today than there was in 1865? They and the infrastucture to support them needs to go somewhere.

So now what "history" becomes more important than today's people and the history they are creating?

Its all a balancing act. So how much "big" history land is actually going to be used up in this expansion or is it just 'Well Jackson's men walked here' type of land. They walked a LOT of places and some of that land current supports pools or pink flamingos.

We only maintain creditablity by being sensible in what we mobilize to save and realizing that not ALL of it is going to be saved, nor in the long run should it be.

And those rail spurs you admit can't go everywhere, if you tried some of them would run over 'historical land'.

Just like you house and driveway sit on 'small' historical land. History happens all the time everywhere. Just because it doesn't get written up in a history book doesn't mean its not history.

I-81 runs along "small historical" sites but also important battles in Virginia. Staunton, Lexington (wasn't a battle but important historically), Winchester, Kernstown, New Market, Cedar Creek, the list goes on...

The world is a piece of history like Bob 125th NYSVI said. We definately can't save the whole world even though it's a hunk of history, no matter how hard we try.

HistoryGeek
Evan Hunsberger