Blue Confederate Trousers

[Jalaco]

What would have been the frequency of confederates using sky blue trousers, similar or identical to federal ones? I've heard people say good numbers of rebels could/would have had sky blue trousers, and I've heard others say that confederates would have rarely if ever worn sky blue trousers.

Would they be authentic for a certain year or theater?

[LWhite64]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Like many things it depends, there were Confederate Issue sky blues, BUT they are of a completely different pattern from US Issue. The CS use of sky blues is totally skewed out of proportion by reenactors today.

[4VADRUMMER]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

They were indeed worn quite a bit in the ANV. Refer to this
article:http://www.acws.co.uk/archives/milit...e_trousers.htm
I think the key to correct Confederate blue trousers is the color because the confederate issue trousers were much richer in their blue tint than federal trousers. If you want a great pair hit up Chris Sullivan at Stoneybrookcompany or Fred Adolphus.

[ScottCross]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Like many things it depends, there were Confederate Issue sky blues, BUT they are of a completely different pattern from US Issue. The CS use of sky blues is totally skewed out of proportion by reenactors today.

Lee is totally correct, the scant use of sky blue trousers by a few Confederate units, does not justify the use of Federal issue style trousers by those wanting to portray a Confederate soldier.

[Brandon Ledvina]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Although this would be trousers and coats I think it is interesting.

Book "Perryville, this Grand Havoc of Battle" by Kenneth Noe. Refering to Cleburne's veterans:

Page 39, after the Battle of Richmond, KY, "..triumphant Confederates feaseted on captures stores, doned Federal-issue clothing..."

And during the battle:
Page 263-64, "Colonel Smith [CSA] took one look at Cleburne's men over his shoulder, many still dressed in Federal-issue blue uniforms they had scavenged...and lamented that the enemy had gained his rear."

The dispirted Colonel then turned to his aid and asked for a white hankerchief with which to surrender.

"Just then [Cleyburne's men] raised a yell (Federals always cheered). With relief, [they] realized the identity of the men in blue."

[4VADRUMMER]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I have to clarify..... Confederate issue trousers is one thing. If you want them go with a Richmond depot pattern and a Royal Blue color Kersey. I'd avoid wearing federal trousers like the plague!! The only exception would be if you can identify a certain time period when it's documented that your unit may have wore federal trousers as stated in Brandon's post.

[Horace]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

One factor that might be getting overlooked is the huge number of men who were captured. This site http://ehistory.osu.edu/uscw/feature...statistics.cfm lists 1 in 15 for both sides over the course of the war. I don't have the exact number but it was in the hundreds of thousands. I've read a couple of accounts by Federals of being captured and losing most of their clothing and equipment in a few minutes and being "traded" worn out Confederate items. One account refered to the experience as "a shucking bee".

I've read other discussions about Confederate use of Federal trousers and the reference points have been raiding Federal supplies and stripping the dead, neither of which was a common occurence. True, but I wonder about the huge influx of prisoners as a source of Federal pants, taken generally-and randomly-at the point of capture.

I would posit that the issue of Confederates wearing Federal pants may suffer from twin reenactorisms: Mainstreamers wear them too much, and progressives don't wear them at all because of the mainstreamers.

Just food for thought.

[csuniforms]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

In my book "Cadet Gray and Butternut Brown" I cover this as best I could. Seems the only time Union issue trousers were worn was just after Shiloh, the Southerners described as looking like the Yankee Army while in Corinth! The Perryville campaign with the early captures in Kentucky, and just prior to Antietam with the capture of stores in Harpers Ferry. The QM Dept' did issue thousands of blue wool jean trousers in the Fall of 1863 to both Armies East and West, but by the Spring of 1864, all blue issue trousers were dropped, as the uniform looked to much like Yankees with a dark blue imported wool jacket and light blue pants.
CSuniforms
Tom Arliskas

[Jalaco]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Thanks for the input folks; that was quick! Horace's statement is probably true, although I suppose in general it would probably be safer just to go with non-blue trousers in most instances. Does anyone have any suggestions on what kind of trousers would be best for a generic ANV impression, as far as color, jean VS wool, and which suttlers?

[Silas]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

The QM Dept did issue thousands of blue wool jean trousers in the Fall of 1863 to both Armies East and West [ ] ...
Tom Arliskas

Been waiting for a comment about jean wool. Too much emphasis in the oft occurring threads about Confederates in sky or light blue trousers is on color alone. Little gets mentioned about the fabric itself. Unit wide wearing of light blue jean as part of one's issued uniform is not the same as unit wide wearing captured sky blue kersey.

[dixieflyer]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

I would posit that the issue of Confederates wearing Federal pants may suffer from twin reenactorisms: Mainstreamers wear them too much, and progressives don't wear them at all because of the mainstreamers.

I was waiting for this, and I think there is a lot of truth in it. As has been said before, a lot has to do with time and place. The diary/journal accounts of CS soldiers are rife with evidence of CS soldiers utilizing captured US uniforms, but unfortunately it's been taken out of context for decades and used as carte blanche for CS reenactors to "get by" on the cheap at any/every event portraying the whole spectrum of the war. A with many things, the truth probably lies somewhere in between.
Sadly, for you at least Jory, it will be difficult for you to assemble a "generic" ANV impression as, to the best of my knowledge, the "average" ANV soldier in '64-'65 was not equipped or uniformed as he was in . . . oh say '62 or '63. The best thing you can do is find a single point in the war that you like, research that to death, and work outward from there.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Are we talking CS manufactured blue trousers or "tooken em offen a ded Yank" Federal sky blues? If we are talking CS sky blues, I feel they are underrepresented, but Federal trousers are WAY WAY WAY over represented.

[Horace]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

Yeah, I kind of got off the subject.

Others on this forum are way more qualified to comment on this, but the breakdown for "plain everyday common", to massively overgeneralize, looks to me to be

May '61 to late '62: provided by the commutation system (see http://www.authentic-campaigner.com/...utation-System ) So, either provided individually from home or arranged for privately by company or regiment. There is a wide variety here.

Late '62 to late '64: depot issued trousers generally in brown/grey jean wool

Late '64 to April '65: Large amounts of bright bluish grey wool kersey is imported through the blockade and made into garments, so these pants start to appear. This by no means replaces the jean wool clothing still being issued, or clothing sent from home.

So generic midwar might best be covered by brownish jean wool pants of a generic pattern. Civilian pants of wool or jean in various colors would safely cover anywhere and everywhere. Men weren't generally required to take a clothing issue, and the commutation system had established a trend of receiving clothing from home that continued throughout the war.

Here are some vendors that have quality pants:

http://www.wwandcompany.com/index.php/cs-items/cs-enlisted-trousers

http://www.cjdaley.com/cstrowsers.htm

http://www.crchilds.com/id46_cf_trou.htm

Beyond that, comb the forums for a quality used pair.

[Milliron]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

One thing to keep in mind is the frequency with which clothing was worn out and replaced. Even assuming there is some basis for the whole "tuck off'n a daid Yankee" business, how long would such an item of clothing have lasted? This is primarily the reason I don't subscribe to the notion. If you were to take a snapshot of Confederate troops in any theater at any given time of the war, might there have been Federal sky blue trousers? Possibly, but they would be so few in number as to not be considered "PEC", which is the guiding principle of my impression.

[roundshot]

Re: Blue confederate trousers

C'mon, folks. What happened to all the captured Federal supply stocks from Shenandoah 1862, Seven Days (Savages Station and White House landing), Catlett's Station, Manassas Junction, Harpers Ferry, and Second Winchester, not to mention battlefield gleanings from engagements in between? One would think Confederate Veteran A. C. Redwood might have known something when he did the attached painting. And an inverted US buckle to boot! Maybe he had insight into CS material culture that we don't but think we do. Let's not be so quick to marginalize the importance of the Federal quartermaster in the Confederate supply system, particularly in the ANV.