.69 caliber rounds in .58 caliber cartridge boxes

[Haversack]

Hello,
I have an 1842 Springfield and have been wondering if soldiers with .69 Caliber Muckets would ever have used .58 Caliber Cartridge Boxes?Thanks.

[August77]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

I would have to say no to this one. I believe I read in Johnson's book that different caliber cartridge boxes were issued to units with different caliber muskets so long as the rounds fit (I will have to go back to check this), but the ordnance dept. was all about protecting the cartridges and putting .69 cal. rounds (round ball or conical) into tins meant for .58 cal. rounds is like ramming 10 lbs. of s#!t in a 1 pound bag. Curious to see what others come up with though!?!

[BrianHicks]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

The men would have used what they were issued.

Quartermaster returns, if existing for the Regt. you may be portraying, may indicate which type of cartridge box that unit was issued (but don't hold your breath, as many times the actual make/caliber of the box isn't always specified).

I suspect that originally they were likely issued the appropriate Cartridge Box for the weapons they were initially issued, especially during the earlier months of the war. But as the .69 Caliber weapons were being replaced by the Enfields and Springfields as they became more and more common, the mass production of the .69 Cal. Cartridge boxes became less and less common, and like the rifles, were being replaced by the newer models. As new Rifles became available, were they always issued with new Cartridge Boxes? No. Not as a rule. And when a Soldier lost his cartridge box and was issued a replacement box, was it always the proper caliber to match his rifle? No.. not always. Just as some Brigades at times saw a mix of caliber amongst the rifles the men carried, so to was there an inconsistency from to time to time in the depot of origin for much of the quartermaster items that unit was issued.

[Haversack]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Ok,I am sightly confused here.So,it could be either way??????????????????

[AZReenactor]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Shawn, Sort of, except that .69 round won't fit into a .58 box. You could put 40 rounds of .58 rounds in the larger .69 box but not the reverse. If using the smaller box with larger rounds not all 40 rounds would fit in the box.

[Haversack]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

I use a .69 Caliber Box right now.I was just wondering in case I purchase a new one so that I can make the most correct decision.I'm sure that a soldier would want as many rounds with him in battle as possible....?

[Garrett Silliman]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

To confuse things:

.69 caliber elongated ball boxes continue to be made throughout the war - despite the presumed decrease in the use of .69 weapons. If you look at the table in the back of Johnson's book he gives the numbers for the production of cartridge box patterns. If I remember correctly the production of .69 elongated ball boxes actually increases as the war progresses (I may be remembering this incorrectly). Not produced in the same numbers as .58 elongated ball boxes, but an interesting wrinkle none-the-less. I actually sold my copy of Johnson's book, but if someone has it handy that might be an interesting set of numbers to throw up.

[Andrew Kasmar]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Hi,

I also have heard that the Confederates made more 69 caliber boxes as the war went on, rather than more 58 caliber boxes. Which is kinda strange because the armies were being armed with more 58 caliber weapons as the war progressed rather then 69 caliber weapons.

[Haversack]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Thank you all for the help,but I will also accept any more if it is available.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Shawn-

What unit/time period are you portraying? Are you able to get ahold of their original records of what they might have been issued at what time?

I was in a Quartermaster battalion in the real, modern Army and trust me... to this day, soldiers will use what they are issued. They will also make-do with what they are issued too, as well as modify it when necessary... so long the first sergeant/commander doesn't care.

Some things don't change in 140+ years.

Think about the practicalities of jamming .69 rounds in a .58 box. You could do it, but you'll hold less. How about if you got lucky and got the bigger box and carrying smaller rounds?

I echo Mr. Hicks's comments from past experience of my own- that is, seeing soldiers in combat make-do with an improper issue (stories for another time).

We can say what is 'probable' and 'most likely to have happened', but your research as to what unit/portrayal should truly guide your decision. In your case, as a 'generic impression' I'd go for a .69 cal box due to wanting to preserve continuity of issue with a .69 cal weapon. Personally, it would irk me to have a .58 cal box and a .69 cal rifle. But to say .58 boxes were 'never' issued to those using .69 cal weapons, I feel, would be an overreach also.

Truthfully, it is up to you and your research in the end.;)

That's my 2 cents -Johnny Lloyd

[Haversack]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Thats the problem.I portray both sides in the Eastern theater(late war) and Confederate and the Western theater(early war).

[BrianHicks]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Do what many of us have done... end up with multiple accoutrement items so as to cover East/West, Early/Late, Federal/Confederate impressions.... yeah... this hobby can get pretty damned expensive can't it? :)

[Slouch]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Echos of Glory (CS) notes that later in the war, the Confederates dropped production of 58 cal boxes and made only 69 boxes. I have no idea where this info came from and have never found any other source that claims this.

[Johnny Lloyd]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

Thats the problem.I portray both sides in the Eastern theater(late war) and Confederate and the Western theater(early war).

How about revising what theater-of-war/units/time periods you intend portray? I'd love to do some certain units, but the uniform/weapon requirements for a proper impression of those units would be pretty stiff budget-wise on me.

If you got the money, do the impression... but if you don't, then you might have some choices to make.

-Johnny

[ohioyankee]

Re: Cartridge Boxes

I too just bought a 1842 Springfield and only have a .58 box and don't think I can get a .69 box in time for "At High Tide". Thats going to eat at me worse than the bugs the whole weekend. :D