AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

I just have to ask this, though: Does anyone else feel a bit concerned to be carrying a piece of history and toting it around a battlefield, burning powder through it, and camping with it?

I am really looking forward to caryying it, and perhaps I am overreacting, but I get a bit of a gut squeeze thinking about sitting out there in the rain/heat/cold/rocks/streams/etc. with it...

Is it just me?

R

[guad42]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Rich,
What you state here is the very reason I have not bought an original to carry in the field. I would hate to put a nice original through the abuse.

-Sam Dolan

[dixieflyer]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Rish, my M1816/22 is a hybrid of original parts (all metal but the barrel bands and band springs) and repro parts (Dunlap stock, barrel bands and a couple of screws). This thing was a rehab job for sure, but I still care about it. My closest call was when sleeping with it some drunk wandered through our bivouac and fire :o and stepped all over it and me. I got testy, he got testy back and wisely vacated my AO. He came close to busting it. same thing could happen to your and yours. Just sayin'.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Yeah I took it to my first event last weekend, a living history. I was so preoccupied with where it was and how it was that I was pretty much distracted the whole time. Then I got home and wiped it off for about an hour. It felt like I had borrowed it from a museum without telling anyone. LOL.

Maybe I am not cut out for the original thing. A few knots and dings in my repop don't bother me at all! It just adds character!

[WpnsMan]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Rich,

Would I carry a nice original musket on the field, certainly Not. Though I guess much depends on each individual’s definition of what constitutes “nice” to start with.

What Warren, Myself and others are advocating is taking muskets that would otherwise be ignored by collectors due to their over-all poor condition or, post war modifications and returning them to a useable state where the odd scuff or bruise wouldn’t matter much as far as value goes.

Becoming emotionally attached to projects is normal because of the labor one puts into completing one of these, as opposed to just opening a box. So, taking one onto the field after the process is probably not for the faint of heart regardless of the condition it originally started out in. Though after the initial shock, it gets easier.

I took mine on its maiden voyage this weekend to a local living history. It survived sleeping out Friday night and a skirmish on Saturday, in addition to being fingered by pards and the public. My only major concern was the stock repairs standing up to firing but, I am happy to report it came through the ordeal unscathed.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Bryan - I agree with all you said.

What I was thinking about to maintain my sanity was buying Dunlap stock that I can work up for it to use for events, and then just store the original stock at home.... This musket has an armory repaired crack and is missing the front sling swivel, but other than that it just looks like a 30 year old musket... It definitely wasn't in poor condition. Actually it is very good I would say. No pitting, bore is nice, metal is great. Collectors I believe would be very interested in it....

It's either that or sell it I guess. I'm not a collector. :) It sure is fun to heft though.

R

[dixieflyer]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Rich, that wounds like q good idea, and would certainly go far towards satisfying your peace of mind, but at a price. Understand, Dunlap stocks are not drop in stocks, you will have some labor involved with this too. Is it worth it? Only you can answer that one.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Hallo!

I confess.

I am a heretic.

While I appreciate the culture and "value system" of not restoring originals (or the sin and crime of cannibalizing one for the Parts Market), my radical heresy is that 'we" collectively pay a very high price both literally and actually for "patina" defined as dry rot, fungus, wood boring worm holes, rust, chips, gouges, dents, scratches, dinged screw heads, fading of case hardening, wearing off of blueing, missing parts, parts replaced with parts from other guns, and in general 140-150ish years of Post War handling, use, hunting, parades, hot attics, wet basements, exposed barns, and littlle kids playing soldier that makes an antique look like an antique and NOT much at all what a gun actually looked liked when it was actually used in the Civil War.

"We" talk about preserving, conserving, and maintainng the 'history" associated with the piece when in fact, if "we" can think out of the Collelctor's World box we are not really "honoring" the gun itself or its War time history but rather just the 140-150ish years of Post War "patina."

Think outside of the Box. Do "we" hold the same "standard' for other antiques? Look at "antique" cars and airplanes. They are restored and it increases their value. A strange kettle of fish and double standard. But that is what we have.

Yeah, yeah, I know...

;) :) :)

Curt
Heretic and Sinner Mess

[dixieflyer]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Curt, those are very valid points, and quite true! We have the "antique" collectors market to thank for that. From their viewpoint, as opposed to you, I, and a lot of others here, part of that accumulated history is just as "valuable" to them as a nicely restored piece is to us. Great post in my very humble opinion.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Well, the real shame is that we probably value these weapons much more than 99% of the collectors, most of whom are not living historians.

To a collector, these weapons are simply commodities. A piece to buy, sell, trade, keep that is subject to "depreciation" and the vagaries of "collector-tude" i.e., the sacrilege of touching the century's worth of grime and built up garbage. It amazes me that a weapon that is pitted, rusted brown and covered with grime, with a spidered stock, looking like it was just pulled out of a mud puddle for 150 years, could possibly be worth more than one that was properly cared for or restored to something like its original appearance using original pieces and techniques.

To us these represent the living, breathing, history on a very personal level. I don't know about you but every single time I heft this 16/22 I am asking who may have done this originally? Who looked over that barrel at Chapultepec maybe? And then again maybe during the Seven Days right after it was converted? Or Antietam? What did the rookie think when it was handed to him in training?

Anyway, I guess therein lies the paradox. The collectors want the piece. We want the history.

Cheers.

[dixieflyer]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Rich,
99%?? That is a very sweeping statement. In the last 30 years I have known quite a few reenactors who were firearms collectors. This also brought me into contact to collectors who were just that, collectors of firearms. I must say, that except for a very few, all of them took great pride in their collections, their knowledge, and the history of these weapons. You have a very negative view of collectors, and I am sorry for that.

[ACo.]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Rich,
99%?? That is a very sweeping statement. In the last 30 years I have known quite a few reenactors who were firearms collectors. This also brought me into contact to collectors who were just that, collectors of firearms. I must say, that except for a very few, all of them took great pride in their collections, their knowledge, and the history of these weapons. You have a very negative view of collectors, and I am sorry for that.

Warren, very well put. I to am sorry that such a negative statement about collectors has been stated but I am sure that Rich was just making an overstatement. The vast majority of the research on antique firearms that has given us the accurate information we want was done by people who started out as collectors. Stand in a group of collectors and you will only rarely hear animated discussions about value but you will always hear discussions about history. And the best news? Often it seems that they have only scratched the surface but the work continues with new primary sources being revealed all of the time.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

Gents, sadly I do not think I overstate my point. All of the collectors, at least in this part of the world, that I have consulted with regarding this particular weapon (there have been four, at last count. This was a considerable investment for me) were adamant that no effort whatsoever should be made to "clean" or "restore" the piece, or make repairs, regardless of the historical accuracy of the techniques used, as it would negatively affect its value and "historical and cultural worth". Granted, these were not living historian collectors, but rather private "auction-type" collectors. They were unabashedly and pointedly dismayed (and may have actually spotted) when I explained that I would also be carrying it and putting powder charges through it at living history events.

This is what I meant when I said we in this hobby probably value these weapons more than single-issue collectors. I believe the fine men you mention that have passionate discussions about the history of the weapon probably fall into the category I mean. A "living historian who collects" or at least an historian who has a passion for the period, the weapon and an understanding of its iteration and usage. I guess it may be semantic, but I believe this is a different animal than a collector of artifacts who is more concerned with auction value and insurance premiums.

Anyway, it caused more confusion for me than anything else. The input I saw here was much more along the lines of "fix it up correctly, apprciate it and USE it". The input I recieved from the collector community I saw was the antithesis. I am a proponent of the former. But the whole prospect is daunting no matter how you slice it, since I am carrying a piece of history.

Just my 2 cents.

....R

[acacgolf]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

thank you share, I wish you good luck!

[maillemaker]

Re: AS M1842 or Pedersoli 1816/22 Conversion

I have been pestering Pedersoli to do an H&P conversion of their 1816. It should not be terribly difficult to do - they would need a new breech, some additional tooling to modify the lockplate, and a new hammer. These could be quite popular in the N-SSA arena because the H&P was a smoothbore fitted with a rear sight. Original H&Ps in shootable condition are now commanding a premium so there may be some demand for a quality reproduction.

Steve