12 Step De-Farbing Stock Program

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Curt -

Thanks for the information and for directing me to your thread from my "newbie" post. I will put this to work on my 1855 Springfield and will post pics when it is finished!

Great info.

VR & YOS
CPL Rich Libicer
1st NM Vols
"Kit Carson's Own"

[Skutatos]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

I recently refinished an 1861 Springfield using this method. Thought I might share a few photos:







There was an interesting blonde streak twisting through the wood and causing some difficulties but all in all I think It turned out well.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Here's my shot at the 12-step program. This is a Miroku Charleville.


I used Fiebing's dark brown leather dye and Laurel Mountain Forge permalyn stock finish.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Here are some before pics...
(and that's not rust, that's super-old grease, cosmoline, or some other such crud... and it was a PAIN to clean off!!)

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

I find the dark brown dye has a bit too much red coloring in it (see the above photos where a flash was used.) I have found it beneficial to mix black dye in with the dark brown to tone down this red color. Go easy on the black to begin with but basically mix up your dye and test it on the butt of the stock (under the butt plate) to see if you like the final shade. I've done about three muskets using this method this year (I'm blessed with the area's only leather store across the street from my post office) and plan to do another Richmond musket this week. Once I finish I will post a picture or two in this thread so you can see the effects of the dark brown/black mix.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Dan,

I agree on the red. I had plenty of warning from Curt on that point, but it seemed to lighten up a bit once I started applying the stock finish. "In the stain" (aka - stripped, stained, but pre-finish) the stock looked like a nice walnut color.

What do you use for the black dye and where can you get it? Also, what proportion do you use?

In anything you do, there's always a rookie effort... this was mine! At the end of the day, I'm still pleased with the results. Though a little red, the color is still a big improvement. There was an area of tighter grain just forward of the lock that, prior to refinishing, appeared as a dark spot. Refinishing evened that out and got rid of the funky yellowy tone that the wood had.

@ Dan or Curt (or anyone else):
Have you used the Feibings/Permalyn finishing technique on new/unfinished Dunlap stocks? I will be finishing an 1861 stock late this year or early next year and am wondering what process would be best.

Thanks!

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

John,

I use Fiebing's black leather dye for the mix. Start with a 1/4 mix and inch it up to 1/3 as needed.

If it were me I would go with the more authentic finish when working with a Dunlap stock. If you're paying the money for the black walnut go with the linseed oil rather than a modern chemical equivalent.

[Archie R. Lib]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Dan, I had to do the same thing. I was going for the darker side of walnut on an Enfield refinish, and ended up having to do it twice. The first time, with dark brown only, the red came through way too much, escpecially after BLO was applied.

I had to redo the entire stock, and cut the dye mixture about 70/30 or 65/35 dark brown-to-ebony. With this mixture I came out with a very nice dark stock without the red sheen, even after BLO application.

I guess there is something about the wood used in the Italian repops that soaks in the red pigments of the brown dye while shedding the rest....? Or maybe it is just certain batches that do it.

R

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Hallo!

Until I learned to add some black to even the dark brown, I had many "misadventures" with cherry red looking Italian Hardwood/Turkish Walnut stocks.

"If you're paying the money for the black walnut go with the linseed oil rather than a modern chemical equivalent. "

True. But...

Modern Boiled Linseed Oil is, in fact, itself a modern chemical semi-quivalent of Period boiled linseed oil ("hard oil.")

One can buy cold-pressed "raw linseed' oil at some health food type stores and rework it to replicate the Period "hard oil." But, yes, we are weighing or choosing between two evils here, whether using a modern Boiled Linseed Oil which is kinda/sorta but not really much like Period oil due to its purification, filering, added chemicals, heating, and oxygen blow-through process- or "fudging" to get look and behavior of Period oil with "modern" re-adding of the "hard agent" stuff taken out as impurities and undesireables in the modern production "Boiled Linseed Oil."

Herr Wick, PM sent.

Curt

[Dan Wambaugh]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Curt,

Fascinating stuff. Do you know of (or can you provide) a guide to what it takes to make the cold-pressed raw linseed oil suitable for gun stocks?


Best,

Dan

(Who lives a half hour from the giant hippy commune known alternatively as East Lansing or Michigan State University and thus has easy access to a number of health food stores.)

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Hallo!

I used to, but it may be trapped in my research documents in my dead hard drive.

I had had a bunch of articles gleaned from the "history" of furniture-making, 19th and 18th century gun building, and particularly "classic" stringed instrument makers.. where they talk about them brewing their own linseed oil "varnish" formulae. Oh, an example of a famous one, is that many believe the sound produced by a Stradavari where it was/is his/their secret recipe for finishing oil that produces the distinct sounds.

But, NUG, in fact, most of that still involves "boiled linseed oil" mixed with a thinner such as turpetine, a small amount of "varnish," and pitch or later beeswax.

Making one's own "boiled linseed" linseed oil is relatively uncomplicated. Take cold pressed raw linseed oil, and CAREFULLY slowly boil it with a small limestone rock or three to help neutralize the excess lineolic acid. As it boils, it thickens, and crud (aka "resins") floats to teh top to be skimmed off.

The historical problem with true boiled linseed oil is that it does not harden quickly or much at all. (linseed oil hardens by polymerization , it does not dry by evaporation like other types of oil). I have had projects still wet 4-6 months through summer later. Historically, they discovered they could speed up the drying by adding more "hard resins" as found in "varnish" and thinning the mix by adding a thinner such as turpentine.
Then, when done, it was still a hygroscopic finish, so to get water resistance, it had to be maintianed with applications of wax or pitch.

And, obviously, the cheap military did not 3ant to wait around for months or years for a finish to dry, nor did they want to pay a builder/workman for 20-50 hand-rubbed drop coats either. :) When they could dip stocks in a vat of hot oil, and set them in a drying room.

I have never (yet) found anything on pre 20th century oxygenated "boiled linseed oil" making. There is an inventory list from Harpers Ferry that talks about X number of barrels of "hard oil" on hand.

Anyways, before i got lazy and in a hurry, I used to use a more "traditional" gunmaker's recipe of 1/3 linseed oil, 1/3 turpentine, and 1/3 spar varnish to arrive at a decent approximation. Then I got "corrupted" by the ease and went to the Permalyn Stock Finish and Japan Dryer short cut. But yeah, it is kind of like substituting a SCOTCH BRITE pad for red brick dust or campfire ash paste and a scrap of wool... Or kind of like using modern steel for Period iron. Or aniline dyes to reproduce vegetable dye colors.

;) :)

I will look through some of my old dusty DVD's to see what I may have copied and saved outside of the computer.

Curt

[dixieflyer]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

FWIW for our brethren outside of our borders, in checking on the Laurel Mountain Forge Permalyn Stock Finish, it cannot be shipped outside of the U.S. They will have to find a local substitute.

HTH, YMMV,

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

I thought these pics might be useful here:


These are shots of the "Pipe Organ" at SA NHS, showing details of wood and metal fit and finish on originals. This is also my "happy place". =)

[Pumpkinslinger]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

Oh I'd love to go to your happy place John

[Doughboy]

Re: 12 Step “De-farbing” Stock Program

You can also use india ink to blacken wood stains.