Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
Veteran Arms LLC makes a reproduction M1854 Austrian Lorenz. Does anyone out there own one? Are they any good? I will be receiving and original in the mail tomorrow, but I was looking into a good reproduction for ceremonial purposes with the SUVCW. The original needs a little restoration work, so will not be available for the purpose for awhile. Anyone know where I can get an original middle band for it?
Thanks in advance for any help, opinions, and just good discussion on the Austrian Lorenz Rifle,
Douglas Urbanski
SUVCW Camp 56
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
Hallo!
An "intermediate" step, is the heretical sacrilege of restoring an original to its CW era-use condition.
Meaning, original "Lorenz's" can be found in "fairish" condition with the metal and wood being "a bit gone" to the point on the sliding scale that they no longer have "color" or condition good enough to command higher collector prices.
Many of the skills and techniques needed to do so-called "defarb" carry over for such "restoration" projects.
Having said that, I would add that doing so is often considered Sacrilege and a Mortal Sin.
However, in our hobby is a dirty business where originals are cannibalized into parts and the parts sold to the custom-building and reenacting communities because the profit margins in parts can run as high as 2-3-4 times the profit from selling the intact gun.
While it is said that "parts" come from "Bannerman" half stock shotguns that have long-since lost there "CW History," some dealers cannot resist the profits from stripping any CW guns into parts whne its overall condition will not bring Big Bucks.
Others' mileage will vary...
Curt
Who once as a custom builder, had talked himself into believing there were tons of Bannerman shotguns and even crates and boxes of armory left-over parts "out there" Mess
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
Mr Barry is quite correct, "sporterized" Lorenzes are regualrly available on Gunbroker for nothing and I keep seeing African trade Lorenzes that were converted to Flint after the war and somebody brought over here at some point. Buy the sporterized and steal the lock abd barrel if in tolerable condition. Place into the Flintlock (as ecvery one of those I've seen is in cherry condition) some minro fitting would be required but any competant smithy should be able to do that for a reasonable fee.
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Guest repliedRe: Austrian Lorenz Repop
According to everything I have read, the best solution for a decent Lorenz in shooting condition is to build yourself one out of disassociated parts. It would not cost that much more than the rifled version of the India-made repro, if those figures are correct.
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
Having owned S/N 2 that had been reworked by IMO the premier mind of the Lorenz today I have serious reservations about anything Loyalist Arms touches. I made the mistake after having just received S/N 2 of going to the Heritage Arms show in Eagen MN where I had the opportunity to handle two oroginals, one priced for $750... the S/N 2 didn't even have the advantage of looking like an original Lorenz upon close inspection. The workmanship/fit n finish was poor in comparison to an original and I won't even go into the safety issues involved w/, for all practical purposes, using electrical conduit as a barrel.
Now all of that said, the loyalist product does have some advantages... it's all that is out there. It's balance is almost spot on to the original I handled. But that said, for anything except a museum representation I wouldn't trust the critter.
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
The rifled option has been available for a while. The work is done by a gunsmith in Little Rock. I believe, IIRC, he uses a steel sleeve in a pre-existing barrel.
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
Hallo!
"Does this development refresh interest in this product,..."
In brief and to over-generalize...
IMHO...
Refresh? No.
There was, and remains, interest from certain individuals and in certain quarters for an authentic "Lorenz" reproduction.
However, those numbers wouild appear to be too small to interest the Italians (etc.) in believing that the start-up cost investments and production costs could/would be recouped and a sustainable profit mantained.
"... or appreciably affect discussion of its authenticity?"
Short answer, no.
While a partisan subject with supporters and detractors, it is the general point-of-view and standard of the AC Forum that these Indian "non-guns" have unresolved authenticity and safety issues to the point of their being discouraged from authentic-use discussion and sale here.
Curt
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
Originally posted by James A. Page View PostDoes this development refresh interest in this product, or appreciably affect discussion of its authenticity?
The improvements on the inside of the barrel, while admirable, still don't address all the deficiencies with the visible portions of the piece. My opinion.
Thanks for the update, though! I was not aware of the new option. Perhaps there is yet hope that they might make further improvements (??).
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Re: Austrian Lorenz Repop
I see Loyalist Arms now offers its much commented upon reproduction Lorenz in rifled .54 caliber. A reproduction cruciform bayonet is also offered.
Does this development refresh interest in this product, or appreciably affect discussion of its authenticity?
Jim Page
"Boys, Follow Me!"--Colonel William Bowen Campbell
1st Regiment of Tennesse Volunteers (1846-1847)
"Weeping in solitude for the fallen brave is better than the presence of men too timid to strike for their country"--Motto embroidered on the flag of the 1st Regiment of Tennessee Volunteers as presented by the Nashville Female Academy.Last edited by James A. Page; 04-16-2009, 02:26 PM.
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Re: Austrian bayonet scabbards
For a look at a potentially CS frog for a Lorenz scabbard, check out this one on my web site. Not an add for the item, just a way to show some pics of the subject.
http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/sh...cat=268&page=2
The frog has been examined by a number of true experts in the field and they all agree that it is period and totally correct in construction, tannage, etc, but none can say that there is any particular feature that makes them say it is surely of CS origin. By the same token, none said there was any feature that made them sure it was not......
By the way, I know that Don Smith makes a very good US pattern Lorenz scabbard (he copied one in my collection), as does David Jarnagin. For all of trash that is talked about the products from C&D Jarnagin on the various forums, David makes truly exceptional handmade leather items and is truly an expert in the field and probably the most knowledgeable material culture researcher regarding period tannage. His personal collection of original CW era accouterments is stunning and rivals any major museum collection.
Enjoy the pictures.Last edited by Tim Prince; 09-06-2007, 06:47 PM.
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Re: Austrian bayonet scabbards
Speaking of makers of yore, during the Lorenz craze of 1998-1999, Tom Czechanski* made a small number of scabbards for Lorenz bayonets. IIRC, they were of the US pattern. A few of those may still be out there in reenactorland.
*Yes, I too have to look in the 3MHB to spell check Tom's last name every time.
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Re: Austrian bayonet scabbards
In the large photo, I noticed that at least two of the soldiers had their rifles slung muzzle down. In one case, it looks like the soldier has the sling over his opposite shoulder.
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Re: Austrian bayonet scabbards
Two dug Austrian Lorenz socket bayonet scabbard tips were eBay listing #160137830301. It might not yet be erased though the auction closed a few weeks ago. For your reference......
Dean Nelson
1st MD Infantry, CSA, N-SSA
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Re: Austrian bayonet scabbards
The seated guy definately has a Lorenz too. Note the snail like projection behind the bolster/nipple, similar to an Enfield.
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