Military Vest

[Old Reb]

If I remember correctly, this subject was covered in the old database, but since it is not available, I will persue the topic again. How common, or uncommon was the wearing of military style vest by enlisted men? I see that in EoG{Confederate) that there are three military vest that belonged to men who were not officers. Would the wearing of a military style vest been at the descretion, and affordability of the particular individual? Were civilian vest more common, and how common were vest overall. Thanks for any help on this subject.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Military Vest

Tom

I feel based on what photographic evidence I have seen, vests for both US and CS impressions are very under represented. I dont belive everybody would have had them, but somebody should have them.

[Kykeydet12]

Re: Military Vest

Pards;
Actually , i have reserched the subject and am torn. In most military pictures that I've seen most soldiers are wearing vest's . I can even give you the book names that I've looked in, The CIVIL WAR By:Georphy C. Ward,Ric Burns, and ken burns, look on pages 301,302( both injured men),252,209, 190( man in center) and in many other places, just keep looking.

The Photographic History of the civil war: By Portland house.
look on pages:? Picture of men repiaring a rail road after Stuarts Raid,123,photo # 102 (look for man with hand in vest)and many more

I also want to add a comment against some of the pictures you may see around . Most soldiers would try to make themselve's look richer than they really are , of tenm times shaving , borrowing clothes, cleaning up ect. some of these pictures are taken on the move so they are okay.
My 2 cents.

[hireddutchcutthroat]

Re: Military Vest

There is quite a few photos of deseased soldiers from both sides wearing vests.

[DougCooper]

Re: Military Vest

The evidence is overwhelming that vests were worn as a standard garment, as natural as a shirt or hat. I took a representative sample of photos of both enlisted and officers of the 1st Minnesota (over 100 individuals) - every photo (both outdoor and indoor) was either a vest showing or a closed coat, ie. no shirts showing. More than 50% of each showed a vest.

Let's say it again, the vest was a standard garment in the 1860's and a gentleman wore a vest. To show one's shirt or suspenders was considered somewhat gauche. In fact vests were prized because it was a good way to add a little variety to the military wardrobe, keep warm, look sharp and remain polite if not wearing a coat. They were not "issued" to the soldiers, but they were worn by everybody from teamster to privates to generals.

Extreme hot weather, lack of access to a tailor source or perhaps economics were reasons not to wear one, though vests of canvas, duck, cotton jean, drill, wool jean, etc survive...so one did not have to pay for broadcloth.

The two greatest heat loss areas in one's body are the head and the sides of the chest and abdomen - precisely the area a vest covers. Fashion, warmth, military bearing - good reasons to own a vest or two, not to mention the overwelming photographic evidence.

One wonders how these things get started like "vests were rare, don't wear one."

[Old Reb]

Re: Military Vest

Would civilian style vest or military style vest been more widely worn, or does that again depend on the circumstances? Also, what about the buttons? What type were used? Thanks for the help on the subject.

[stevep51]

Re: Military Vest

Hi everyone,
Old Reb beat me to the question.....sort of. I was turning on the computer to ask a vest question myself, so I will add it into the mix here. I have a military pattern vest, but I would like to get a civilian vest. My wife can sew very well, and I was thinking of having her make me one. My question is other than hand sewn button holes would there be any difference in the "cut" of the vest then to a modern vest pattern? If there are differences what are they and were can I get a good pattern for one?
Thanks!
Steve
p.s. Sorry for cutting in on your thread Old Reb, but I thought they kind of went together!

[FC Barlow]

Military Vest vs Civilian Vest

Old Reb:

I think the military-style vest is over-represented in the hobby. One would have seen just as many, if not more, civilian vests worn by soldiers on both sides during the war. Since the vest was NOT an issue item, soldiers would have to buy them either from sutlers or have mom send them a vest from home. More then likely, they were receiving civilian vests from home.

If you are a Federal reenactor and are looking to get a vest for your impression, go with a civilian vest. They were just as prevalent as military vests and your pards will ask you wear you got that cool looking vest.

Todd Berkoff

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: Military Vest vs Civilian Vest

Quick thought:
There seems to be a number of conflicting points of view on this, some based in part on examination of studio photographs. Would it not be better to view photos of POW's, wounded, and killed in order to see what was worn by a soldier on campaign?

Thanks,

[FortyRounder]

Re: Military Vest

In "The Killing Ground--Wilderness to Cold Harbor" (part of the Time-Life CW series) are a number of photographic examples of troops wearing vests in the field. I don't remember the page numbers off the top of my head, but when I wrote a reply to this very same question on the old forums I cited three photos: (1) Outdoor field hospital, with a Union soldier standing with his arms crossed. He has a vest with the bottom one or two buttons undone. (2) The famous picture of the dead Confederates from Ewell's Corps layed out for burial on the Harris Farm battlefield. The poor guy at the begining of the line has an open jacket, with an unbuttoned vest visible. (3) Union rifle pits on the North Anna river. A man sitting on the edge with his back to the camera has his coat off, and he's wearing a vest. All three examples appear to be military-style.

Another interesting fact to consider is the use of expressions by the soldiers about vests. John W. Haley in "The Rebel Yell and the Yankee Hurrah" says something about putting food under his vest (eating it) a couple times. Also there's the old expression about keeping things "close to the vest." Now the question is, do these comments literally mean the speaker was wearing a vest, or was it just an expression of the times? Either way, you can see vests were considered an important part of a man's outfit, sometimes even on campaign.

[DougCooper]

Re: Military Vest

My post on vests was meant to be all types. The 1st Minn survey had a number of civilian pattern vests, most single but one double breasted. Shades ranged from white to very dark, with two in a kind of tweed or checked pattern.

Was paging through Pat Brown's new book on Federal sack coats last night. Quite a few of the photos show soldiers in a sack coat and vest - belying the idea that it is a rich man's garment or only for dress up (some are taken in the field). Most appeared to be military pattern but it is often tough to tell unless you can see the vest collar poking above the sack coat collar. I did not count the pct, but will tonight.

[JerseySkilletLicker]

"Piecing"

So many original garments exisit that have evidence of piecing. This was done many times in order to make a garment that had the look of expensive, but was quite affordable for the common man.

[tmdreb]

Re: Military Vest

I've noticed this opinion before that since vests were sent from home, they would most likely be civilian pattern. Is there any evidence that backs this up? Of the images I've seen, most soldiers seem to actually be wearing military style vests. The folks at home were sending a large amount of other military style garments to the front, why would vests be the exception?

[FC Barlow]

Re: Military Vest

The only point I was trying to make was that most Federal reenactors that wear vests, wear military-style vests. Given the prevalence and commonality of the wearing of vests in the 19th century and considering it was not an issue item, one would certainly see civilian vests in use and thus we should see more civilian-style vests in reenacting. No, I'm not citing specific photographs - previous posters have done that - but it seems logical that BOTH styles of vests would have been used in great numbers during the war. Yes, that's right, BOTH. Shocking.

Regards,

TS Berkoff

[markj]

Re: Military Vest

Hi,

In a number of cases Southern troops didn't even need to purchase vests or ask for them from home because they received them free of charge from soldier's aid societies. To wit:

DAILY CHRONICLE & SENTINEL [AUGUSTA, GA], August 21, 1861, p. 3, c. 1
Clothing for the Soldiers.--All who can do so should, at the earliest possible day, make up something like the following, for their friends and relatives, omitting such, of course, as have heretofore been furnished:
Two pair of pants of heavy brown or grey mixed jeans, lined, if thought advisable, with domestic.
One roundabout, or army jacket, of the same material, lined throughout, with side and vest pockets. It should be long enough to come some four inches below the waistband of the pants, and large enough to be worn over the vest or outside shirt.
One heavy vest of jeans, linsey or kersey.
One overshirt, of some woolen or mixed goods.
One or two pair of drawers, as they may require.
Two pair of heavy woolen socks.
One good blanket--lined is advisable.
An overcoat, or a loose sack coat; or hunting shirt with belt.


Here's another one:

AUSTIN STATE GAZETTE, October 19, 1861, p. 2, c. 2

Soldiers' Aid Society.

We are in receipt of remarks of J. H. Robinson, Esq., chairman of the Executive committee of the Soldiers' Aid Society, made in connexion [sic] with his report to the Society, at its meeting held in the Representative hall on the 5th inst.
***I have received to date in cash, and special gifts to individuals and otherwise, $420; 1 buffalo robe, 76 rolls bandage lint, 26 handkerchiefs; 22 pairs of shoes; 9 pairs of boots; 103 shirts; 125 undershirts; 35 vests; 125 pairs drawers; 250 pairs socks; 28 comforts; 203 blankets; 194 coats; 208 pairs pants.
[END]

If you look through Vicki Betts' newspaper research site you will undoubtedly find many more items like the above.

http://www.uttyl.edu/vbetts/newspaper_intro.htm

I myself have seen other mentions of "issue vests" (my term!) in, for example, the Richmond VA "Enquirer"--these frequently appeared in appeals for winter clothing published in the late summer and early fall of each year.

Regards,

Mark D. Jaeger