The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Jim: Fortunately I was able to find an original unengraved hammer. It's probably odd logic, but I purchased a London maker reproduction because it matched the hammer I already had, as opposed to buying the gun first and then trying to find a hammer. I took a gamble that it would fit. I got very lucky. BTW, the JRA came with a standard Armisport engraved hammer even though the lock was not engraved. I'm not sure why JRA is not taking the time to at least grind the engraving off the hammers so that they match the London lock plates.

Craig: I can see how you would think the lock plate is blued. It isn't, but the colors in the case hardening are very weak, almost a solid gray. I think this is something that I would like to have redone at some point.

My biggest frustration with this piece and all the Armisport Enfields is the shape of the bolster. My frustration is particularly compounded by the fact that the bolster on my Euroarms Enfield looks much better, in spite of the thicker and heavier barrel. I haven't figured out how to fix this yet. I welcome any one else's thoughts on the subject.

[MassVOL]

Enfield Combination Tool

Has anyone had the opportunity to compare the Peter Dyson Ltd, and Blockade Runner Enfield Combination tool to an original?

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

CJ:
Wow, that is a pretty nice original Potts & Hunt! JRA borrowed a lock assy in my collection for their LACo 1861. I saw one of their repros at Mill Springs (at Regtqm) and the markings were slightly higher on the lock plate than on my original lock plate. Not sure how that happened. The JRA Potts & Hunt is very decent, though. Did JRA blue vs case color the lock plate or are my eyes playing tricks on me?

Jim:
Barnett was the Eli Whitney of the British gun trade. Yes, there were variations in their lock plate lettering. Barnett is the gunmaker that ocassionally put "TOWER" under the crown behind the hammer. The "Barnett Gunmaker" stock stamp is cool looking, too.You are also right about the EoA Enfield, there is only so much you can do with that one. And they weigh a ton. Original hammers may or may not work well. Mostly not. The problem is they often don't quite reach the cone on the repro.

I was in the middle of doing my most recent acquisition (a mint mid-70s Parker-Hale P-53) as a LACo 1861, and planned to use that original lock of mine in it, which fits in there like a glove. In fact, I had been saving that LAC lock for just that purpose, hoping one day to find a worthy P-H to put it in. Decided against it after seeing Todd Watts new "E Bond" Birmingham. Zing went the strings to my heart.

[Jimmayo]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Mr. Roberts: Nice job! Did you take the flame grooves off of the original hammer? I couldn't tell from the picture.

This points out another strike against the Euro Arms repro. The original hammers will not fit. I have one and have been unable to find a plain hammer that will fit.

Here is a pic of a P&H bar on band lock with the engraved lines.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Here's a side by side comparison between a JRA Potts & Hunt (top) and an original (bottom). Hope this is helpful.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

When I have a few minutes, I'll email a side by side comparison of the repro P&H and an original P&H for your comparison.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

I got very lucky. The orignal hammer, which by the way did not come close to fiting on my Euroarms Enfield, fit just fine. As you may be able to see in the photo, the hammer does not strike the nipple exactly on center, but it is very close and functions just fine. The original trigger was surprisly easy to install. As you know, it's always a gamble when installing original Enfield parts.

C.J. Roberts

[Slouch]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

thanks! Im mainly interested in seeing the different lockplates they offer. The Potts & Hunt stamp looks really good. I think I like it better than the Barnett I saw. The Barnett didnt match the script Ive seen on originals, though I know there are variations.

Was it difficult swaping the repro hammer out for the original?

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Mike,

I was reluctant to post this photo because it is not a stock JRA. While it is a JRA degarbed Armisport, I have refinished the stock, replaced the hammer and trigger with originals. It will give you an idea of the London lock plate markings however, which is what it sounds like you are seeking. The lock plate compares quite favorably with an original Potts & Hunt in my collection. Hope this is helpful.

Sincerely,

C.J. Roberts

[Slouch]

Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Hi folks,

I would love to see some pics of James River's defarbed Enfields. Using the search function, I did find pics of a Barnett. Id like to see their Tower lockplate and any of the contractor lockplates.

Thanks in advance to anyone willing to share their pics with me.

Mike

[riptailedroarer]

Re: Enfield Lockplate Question

My guess would be Inspected Condemned and then sold for export. Of course that is just a guess.

When British government arms were unfit for service and sold into the public market, a new broard arrow was stamped opposite the exsisting one to make a mark like this -><-
hope this is of help.

Just found this in arms & equipment of the British army, 1866

"Rifle muskets made at the Royal Small Arms Factory are distinguished by the word [I]Enfield[I] engraved on the lock-plate, and have their corresponding parts exactly identical in size and interchangeable.
Those made on the same principle by the London Armory Company have L.A.C on the lock-plate.
Rifle muskets manufactured by contract have the word TOWER on the lock-plate.
All rifles belonging to the government are marked with a crown and the letters V.R., besides a small crown and broad arrow on the lock-plate and barrel."

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Enfield Lockplate Question

Educated guess would be...I C = Isaac Curtis.

Re: Rack Numbers Engraved on the P-53 Enfield

I read someplace (and it may have been from Mr. Barry) that it is believed that the "JS" was the initials of "James Smiles" or something similar who was a London Armory inspector, contracted by a State in the South to inspect and purchase arms. His JS anchor stamp is seen on Enfields as well as on some European revolvers. But, it is probably impossible to know for sure that this was the guy. We have put that "conjecturism" onto the de-farb page at The Blockade Runner's site just to give a bit more trivia for potential customers. On the S and anchor stamp, I hear from Mr. Prince that there is a new book in the works that has more info on this stamp which is considered an even more rare Confederate contract stamp. I am now reproducing the E.Bond with the S anchor stamp that Mr. Prince recently had posession of. I like the E.Bond stamp best of all of mine. It is a pretty mark.

[fowler1861]

Re: Rack Numbers Engraved on the P-53 Enfield

I own two 53 enfields, a 61 tower with "rack" numbers on buttplate and a 63 marked E Bond in oval on stock with an anchor with an s over it on the top of the stock just in front of the butt plate. The Bond musket also has the initials js very small on the lock plate. Does any one know what the anchor s and the js stand for?

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Too Many Enfields?

Tim

Sadly, I just found out via private message that Wick and I do not both have the same US 1816, his is a Belgian conversion...and mine is the Colt style "cone in drum". Still quite a coincidence.

Yes! The 20th Maine 1863 diary excerpt from William Livermore..."July 4th. Weather cloudy. We went out and picked up Springfields and left our Enfields. Nearly everyone did so." You know, we don't see all that much of this particular form of historical interpretation going on these days do we...Civil War enactors discarding their Enfields and picking up Springfields or anything else for that matter? Reinforces the point of the thread in a way. There is a strong and deep seated interest with the P-53 Enfield w/in the hobby, some (self included) would say to the point of obvious over-representation. And it is not the initial slight cost advantage. It is very well known that the P-53 repro "out of the box" isn't very good and will require a couple hundred dollars in accuracy modifications to be passable.

So why is that? What is there about the P-53 in particular that inspires this strong preference, even among a group of enthusiasts who really should (and probably do) know better? I have some theories...