Battlefield Pickups

[Bill]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

One item the Yankees picked up from the Rebs on a regular basis was their wood canteens. To use or send home as a souvenir is another question. There is a great photo of a Federal cavalryman with a Gardner pattern wood canteen strapped to his saddle in the "Canteen Book".

[jones56ga]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Howdy fellas,
Just reading this thread, and thought i'd put my .02 cents in.
My family is very fourtunate to have several letters from my 5xGreat Grandad, Marcellus A. Atkinson. He was a private in Co. G "Pinola Guards" of Cobb's Legion, Georgia troops. Co. G was formed in 1862 and sent to Virginia after a few weeks of simple training in Morgan County.

Anyway, My point-
After his first engagement he writes home:

...It was a terible sight... Men and horses scattered together so that you could not tell them apart. Although I was able to retrive a fine yankee rifle, overcoat, and napsack(sic)...

Just a neat story,
Ricky Jones

[ContinentalMorganGuard]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

In "One of Jackson's Foot Cavalry" John H. Worsham of the 21st Va. Co. F makes a good reference to "battlefield pickups" or captured supplies. He mentions that during the Valley campaign to the end of the war he never paid for but one set of clothes as the rest came pretty much from the Federals, including other equipment. I don't have the book in front of me or I would post the passage, if anyone would like I will do so later.

[2ndNHDOC]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

One story I have read was how the Col. of the 5th New Hampshire had wanted Springfields vice Enfields when his regiment was outfitted. At Antietam he had his men change out Enfields for Springfields there. I am at work now but when I can get to my Regimental history at home I will find the quote.

Brian Schwatka
3rd US Regulars
"Buffsticks"

[JWNathan]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Great thread, it is facinating to read all these different accounts. Great read. Would be an interesting read in book form of all different examples of the spolis of war.
-Jesse

[Pennvolunteer]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Well, this is my first post ever, but your comments caught my eye. As a 24 year Army veteran, I would tell you that soldiers will always stop to grab a good piece of gear except during intense fighting. It is their nature. As a former assistant Professor of History at West Point, I would point out to you that Jackson's attack at Chancellorsville bogged down as his soldiers stopped to loot Union camps of gear, and we see the same happen at the Battle of Camden in the American Revolution. At Second Bull Run, Jackson's soldiers pilfered Union rail cars for a whole night before falling back, in fact wrecking several supply trains. A piece of gear, better than yours, and a moment's effort, is always tempting. More importantly, both Armys practiced battlefield salvage after engagements. Whoever owned the field scavanged the remnants and QMs "recycled" useful materiel.

[D F Smith Historic]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Hi Ryan,

Interesting observation. Although keep in mind the items many soldiers, (In particular Federal soldiers), Took home or "Captured" were items picked up afterthe battle. these are in evedence in Silvia & O'Donnels book on Canteens. Further the opicture of the 78th Pa on Look Out Mountant shows one man with a English Belt with snake buckle on in the lower/ front rank. It has been assumed he had picked this up from a prisoner.

In my own collection I have aConfederalte Web Belt with buckle picked up after 1st Manassas.

Now this is no excuse for a fellow to use the "I picked it up after/durring the battle" for their impression. So they don't have to purchase an item. that is just shear lazyness. BUT. If a fellow can document it for his particular impression and first person with diary accounts or an artifact specific to his unit & company portraied. It should be allowed.

There are some great examples of "Captured" Cs Gardners with carving on them both from the CS Owner on one side and on the other the carvin gof the US Soldier with the date of capture and his name.

All the best

Don S

[Todd Watts]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Welcome Pennvolunteer. It is good to have your experience on here.:) Be warned that they are gonna yell at ya for not "signing" your post though!:D

You are right that troops did bog-down in attacks due to pilferring. I think the most notable example was Shiloh. Confederates ran the Federals right out of camp so fast that advancing Confederates actually pilferred cooking breakfasts along with stands of arms and gear. That slow-down quite possibly is what allowed "The Hornets' Nest" to happen later that day for if the surge had maintained the first momentum the Federals likely could not have had time to organize that resistance. Heck, that slow-down due to pilferring may be what saved the likes of Sherman and Grant to later win the war. That particular battle turned against the Confederates precisely because of the pillaging. The second day the Federals advanced back into their camps and surprised the many looting Confederates that had to quickly drop their battlefield pick-ups or be captured or shot.

At Stones River, the same thing happened as Confederates ran Federals right out of camp so fast that the Confederates often snatched a cup of hot coffee or still-frying bacon off the pan as they passed. Confederates here held those camps for 2 solid days and had ample opportunity to organize their pilferring parties to improve their equipment before retiring.

[Pennvolunteer]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Todd,
Thanks, I no more than sent the post than I noticed I didn't sign it and saw another post get yelled at for not signing. Fresh-fish error here on the site.
Your point about Shiloh is a great illustration for this discussion. I was reading Larry Daniels' book about Shiloh recently and there was discussion in there about Confederates dragging their loot back, and some having to dump it. I was just at the 145th Re-enactment and heard some of the same when I went over to the Battlefield and discussed with some others living historians.

Frank Siltman
Private
77th PA Vol Inf, Frontier Bde
Lawton, OK

[MuleyGil]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

Hey Mark Carey,

Your dad says, "Hey" and for you to send him an e-mail.

Muley Gil, living in the land of endless beach and camels.

[tomp40]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

One has to remember that the soldier in 19th century America was very religious.. And to take items off of a dead man may have been looked upon as a no-no.. (bad karma) With that said, anything scattered about may have been up for grabs if a soldier in the field truly needed something.

[Todd Watts]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

One has to remember that the soldier in 19th century America was very religious.. And to take items off of a dead man may have been looked upon as a no-no.. (bad karma) With that said, anything scattered about may have been up for grabs if a soldier in the field truly needed something.

May be to some, but there are many accounts of "scroungers" around the fields and plenty of reports of de-clothed and de-coutered dead, especially Yankees. Heck, even the great Maj. Gen'l. Pat Cleburne was discovered laid flat as though on display but bootless, and that was a Confederate robbing one of his greatest heros of good boots.

[Sccavtrooper]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

well there is an account i read of the 1st SC cavalry regiment on a raid into penn and the cavalry depo at carlise that they left looking more like union cavalry than confederate after raiding the supplies there. so i would take that as a battlefield pickup. i do think that this was more a confederate thing than a union one. the union had more stuff than they could use for the most part. the confeds use what they could get when they could. Not to say that they did not have an acceptable supply system. they just did not have the resourses of the north. so i am sure the confeds would use sky blue trouser if they needed a new pair of pants or a steel canteen if the wooden one they had was leaking. BUT i do not think you would find confed stuff on a union soldier. WHY would he do that ? why drive a ford when you can drive a porche

[Todd Watts]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

That makes sense. Probably you would have found some CS stuff in and around US camps from time to time, just as a curiosity item somebody picked up and it made its way around camps. But, as soon as they were marched from the place I would bet only the smallest CS trinket would have been carried as a war-souvenier. In other words, that lice-infested gray denim coat would have remained rather than be folded up & carried in a man's knapsack. But a watch or button or something like that could easily be carried for a while. The weapons would be improved upon regardless however. When Grant took Vicksburg, for instance, his men eagerly dropped old worn out or inferior arms in favor of stands of new English (Enfield?) rifles. Grant even instructed his officers to see to it that the better CS arms replaced his ranks' inferior arms, and he "surrendered" his old junk guns to teh War Dept. there as CS-captured guns.

[tomp40]

Re: Battlefield Pickups

True, to use an analogy, I think a CS soldier taking US supplies or equipment would have been akin to someone 'sticking it to the man'...in todays world.