150th Cycle Meeting

[Wild Rover]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Ok,

Let me address some thoughts listed and also put out an invitation (which was in the original press release) to those who wish to attend and participate in the next meeting.

First of all, I did not release the notes publically as I was getting all input from attendees first, I had issued them by email to folks who attended or who were on the email list. Was waitingon feedback from them prior to a large public airing of the notes, but hey, nothing ever goes according to plan....anyone who has ever done anything appreciates that one.

But, yes, there needs to be more folks involved, more folks who see a common goal, and work towards a larger common goal, while still keeping thier vision.

The hobby is a huge bell curve, and most folks fit somewhere in the middle, with extremes on both sides.

This meeting was not to embrace the whole middle, but for a lack of better terms, the upward middle and stopping short of the far upper extreme, as we all know that if you put 200 reenactors together, someone's cap pouch will be wrong, so there has to be an attainable standard/goal that will enable the growth that the 150ths will definately bring.

Folks are invited to attend the next meeting, and Laurel has agreed to be the contact person for such (thank you!)

We constantly discussed a "buffet" of events, and hopefully folks who will be new to the meeting will be able to help provide more "fixins" to choose from.

Now to address Dusty and his questions-

With an event of "several thousand with spectators", I have some questions for you. I'm not trying to be pissy, just want to know your thought process.

1) How much land would be needed to do such an event? Normally 350 acres is the starting point, but that has a lot to do with usable % of property and the terrain itself- example, the Boonsboro site had only slightly over 200 acres, but the terrain made it work. The AHT event site had 500, but really needed to be bigger in some aspects and smaller in others. Really depends on the ground layout.

2) What would be the funding source for these events? Reenactors- counting on the public money instantly changes the the focus of the event, thus 3pm Sunday fights and so forth. Reenactors IMO come first.

3) Why are some groups included and excluded? See Mike's post above.... it was folks whom I had worked with over the past decade who were team players. The next meeting appears to be getting bigger :)

4) Is this group an extension of the past "Reenactor's Liasion Committee" (I think that was the name of it). Nope- that had no reason to exist, as it really did, well nothing, as it chose to. Many of us played that game in the RLC, and it turned out to be a total waste of time.

5) I know you and Dave are working on this, but who else? Already listed above, and more folks signing on each day. Wanna help?

Pards,

[Old Reb]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Me, I believe in free market reenacting. Committees, grand head gatherings to discuss things, and direction from the top down is for the government, not for reenactors who vote by their choice of which events they attend or don’t attend. Individuals, or small groups of individuals come up with an idea for an event. Then they implement that plan. People decide whether that event is the kind they want to attend. Competition between events is good. Dropping two events that are aimed at the same audience close to the same date isn’t. I do believe that folks have figured that one out without having grand think tanks to work it out for them. Simply put, if you have only a limited number of people that might attend the event you are planning then it makes little sense to compete for that limited number of people by having the events scheduled for approximately the same date. Mainstream events don’t count in this equation for they are a different breed and if there is a small over-lap of attendees that might select either a more authentically oriented campaign event over a farb shoot ‘em up, then it makes little difference to the side of the hobby that is striving for event of more quality. The hybrid events that promise a little shoot ‘em up and a little campaign contingent fit in the same category as the total mainstream event. They might attract folks from the fringes of the more authentic side of the hobby, but not to the point that those people would select a hybrid over a quality event. Basically, it is the consumer that make the choice regarding what event they attend and which they don’t and no amount of committees, think tanks, gatherings of planners will change that clear fact. Good events, where ever they are held, and by whom ever puts them on, will be attended. Free market reenacting is best.

[PogueMahone]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Nowhere did I mention anything about "Regions planning events" (but hell, that's a damn good idea)...having a "local" spearhead the effort to organize an event, has potential to alleviate some of the logistical considerations of events.

The first paragraph was about what you said, not directed at you. The rest of the post referenced back an idea I had put forth earlier. No stones were tossed at you directly.

Did I say, "folks over the mountains, would "boosts" event numbers"? I don't believe I made that comment either ...

What you said, sans the parenthetical reference to specific events, was:

While a mere 15-20 soldiers at a time may seem like some menial amount of soldiers, when that's multiplied out 10 times...now the numbers start to come together ... Not to mention the Brothers/Sisters over them big scary mountains...

Mathematically that reads (15 x 10) + AoT = X.

But this I find a bit discomforting:

... while it's nice to see guys flock to a particular impression in effort to boost numbers (grey-blue, blue-grey, east-west, west-east), outside of the "normal/comforting" base-impression...the truth is...it sure would be nice to provide oppurtunities for people to portray their base impressions...seeing a Western Contingent here in the East portray a Regiment/Battalion/Companies from somewhere outside of the ANV (thinking the Western Contingent at Andersburg)...and of course vice-versa (thinking of the ANV Contingent at a GA Living History a few years ago).

Documented unit specific event portrayals are fine, but a generalization of "base-impression" westerners at an eastern event sounds like mainstream thinking to me.

[Marylander in Grey]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

All,
IMHO
Could we all just step back alittle and look at what we can do togeather. I feel planning now as stated by many others is positive for several reasons:
1. We as Historians will be in control of the events on a larger scale then "which one chooses to attend". No more events for personal profit. Proceeds to go to preservation.
2. Time to assist those who may want to improve thier impression with being outcast from the start. We accomplish this by guidelines posted sooner than later.
3. Provide a list of events early on to ensure maximum participation without doubling up on weekends. Which will allow regional coordinators to work out schedules for maximum coverage without event overload. Land preperation,travel arrangements, work commitments ect....
4. Will allow Commanders to research specifics of the Battles, as well as rolls of civilians for proper interaction, ect...
5. Will ensure that the coordinators have sufficient time for pre- event logistics ie: EMS, Police, Insurance issue, local laws on firearms, ect...
6. Will help with recruiting.
My point is Volunteer to help. I am.
Just my 2 cents.

[Clsinclair]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

This is an interesting commentary. Paul is telling us that the Rich Mountain event was an "Eastern EBUFU". And then he suggests the folks "over the mountains" might even boost such event numbers. Paul, I'm smiling now because my CS company was commanded by a guy from SC, the 1st Sgt (me) was from Tenn, and the ranks were filled from about 7 different states on both sides of the mountains and maybe one from across the river. Paul, Rich Mountain was not an "Eastern EBUFU", it was promoted as a national event and organized by folks from the Midwest.

Earlier in this thread, I stated that this hobby is no longer regional. Rich Mountain is a great example of that. The list of events in the last 5 years that had participants from each major region/theater is going to be longer than the list that didn't. For all the talk of getting a plan together for the 150th series of events, why are we looking to each region to organize events within that region? Why not a national plan? If you'd told me that Chris Anders, Eric Tipton and Tom Yearby had gotten together to try and scratch out a plan for national events, I think my ears would perk up to hear what was said.

But, now that I see what this mystery meeting was about (Thanks, Charles, for lifting the "Cone of Silence"), I'm satisfied, not curious and see no real impact on my plans for the next few years. "Same regiment, new clothes".

Hi Joe,

I was in that Company and I am from the Palmetto State of South Carolina.

[Wild Rover]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

John,

I just noticed your post and to be honest felt that it needs answered.

First off all, none of the folks at the meeting had ever worked with or for you before, and while it was sorta "rumored" you have worked on events before, it was and is the opinion that this was your first event as lead organizer. If I/ we are wrong, my apologies.

Next- we were not faulting you personally, but rather, to be straight honest, the lack of support you recieved from those who were to lead the troops on the field.

No one, or very few had heard anything from the respective force commanders, to whip folks into registering, to promote the event, contribute to the website, detail much of anything other than- We are in charge, we ahve big numbers it will be fun, show up.

Sorry, but folks need to take more ownership than that. Worked in 1995, when they actually had big numbers, when money and time was plenty, but the cheese has moved, and the folks who think they can still run an event in such a way will do nothing but fail. It is not what organization they "command" that matters. It is past performance and ability to rally others and follow a darn script, enforce regulations and LEAD.

If you notice, the conversation then turned to how to help folks who are putting on events, rather than criticize. To be honest, many were sad that the event did not occur, and want folks to know that we are looking to help others with events, rather than being happy sitting back and watching them fail, so we can snipe on the forums about such.

We have troops we wish to lead to event. We cannot put them all on, no matter how big or diverse the group is. We need events to succeed, heck the whole hobby does.

But to win in today's hobby, you have to change the game. Operating a business like it is 1995 today would bankrupt you, and the same for an event. It is truly a business, and must act and make decisions like one.

Sorry for the rant, but wanted you to know there was no personal attacks on you, but rather a criticism of folks who OWED you more support than what they delivered.

Sweat equity and ownership on the part of the reenactors involved, not just you.

Hope this makes sense, and I hope that you will get back into the saddle, and ride the horse again, and do drop me a line anytime.

Pards,

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

John, I'd like to add my apologies for not seeing your earlier e-mail; I'd also like to reinforce a few points.

The minutes were distributed to attendees on March 26 and posted here on the 28th. There simply wasn't time for Chris to get comments back and make corrections before the minutes were forwarded to the world from someone who did not participate. That's a risk you run when you get a lot of people involved, I guess.

The statement you corrected resulted, I believe, from the note-taker's attempt to capture the comments of several people. It was incorrect to ascribe everything in that first section to just Dave and Chris. In my own notes I didn't have anything like that -- I just noted that folks spent the first five or ten minutes chatting about Spottsylvania. Unfortunately, the timing of the cancellation made it a natural opening topic for people meeting shortly after to discuss events.

I was glad to see the comment captured about wanting to work with you in future.

[col90]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

[FONT="Book Antiqua"]

Ms. Lawson, you raised an excellent question about civilians. The challenges involved in raising the level of civilian authenticity in these upcoming events dwarf those on the military side to such an extent that one hardly knows where to begin. We discussed this at length – probably greater length than the official minutes convey.

An excerpt from my notes may illustrate what I mean: “Someone raised the issue of mentoring; AGSAS (Atlantic Guard Soldiers Aid Society) was mentioned and several participants wrote down the name as a source for information. The idea of inviting AGSAS to help was raised, but at least one person suggested that a meeting of AGSAS and 300 ladies in ball gowns was apt to result in terror on both sides, if not a chemical chain reaction that would threaten the planet.”

I confess that the “one person” was me; I assure you I meant no disrespect to AGSAS.

None taken..but since our name has come up, let me just give a brief response.

One of our members drew my attention to this thread...I had not been on this forum for a little while. The reason there were no AGSAS board members there is that we didn't know about the meeting. I'd also say we are always interested in considering new events and advancing the cause of the civilians in the hobby, but we do need to be made aware of things in order to consider them.

And Mrs. Lawson, biting is on our list of "no-nos"! ;)

Colleen Formby
President, AGSAS

[Annette Bethke]

Re: 150th Cycle and civilians

Some of us civilians in Texas have already started thinking about this and are planning home front living histories in Texas for each year. We are still in the discussion stage. Because so few engagements occurred here, we thought the home front was truly what should be represented here. Keep in mind that just because it is home front does not exclude military involvement. The basic structure will be the effect of the different major events on the citizens of Texas. We also hope to show the progression of the effects of the blockade, the severe drought in the area, the lack of man power to harvest, etc.

[Wild Rover]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Annette and all,

Truly trying to make a meaningful experience for large numbers of civilians can prove to be an overwhelming task at larger "miltary focussed" events.

Having put together Burkittsville 2001 (over 80 civs), War on the James, (20 couple) and October 62 I really think that having good period interaction with civilians adds tremendously to all involved.

However when you find yourself dealing with a couple hundred civilians, on a piece of land perfect for military manuvers but not civilians, what is the answer?

If you tell the civilians to stay home, many events will never reach 1,000 participants. Now folks can argue whether having 1,000 plus participants events are their cup of tea, but the fact remains- want 2,000 troops, you end up with 150 or so civilians.

Perryville 2006 did an excellent job with the living history village, and the civilians really stepped up and ran with that program.

Perhaps that is an example of what could be done.... but it will take a united front from the civilians to make it occur. A central group with a visions and the means and willingness to create the stage on which to perform.

There needs to be more communication between all civilians in such a situation, solutions created and then just let theorganizer know what you require to implement them.

Being "military" I hate to even dabble in civilian matters, except for the fact I enjoy good interaction and feel they add so much to the overall experience.

Always open to suggestions,

[PogueMahone]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Well, Chris, since you are open to suggestions ...

Perhaps the thing to do is to put as much planning AND execution into your civilian roles and activities as you do the military, create guidelines for civilians that are every bit as stringent as the military and enforced and you probably won't end up with 200 civilians, tent sitters or dressed-up spouses.

What piece of land is perfect for military manuevers and not civilians? If you can manuever a battalion across it, I guarantee you can move civilians across it. If the big open field is perfect for dress parade, it can be plowed.

Your comments: ... "miltary focussed" events ... I hate to even dabble in civilian matters ... land perfect for military manuvers but not civilians ... just makes it sound like civilians are not desired at your events.

[Wild Rover]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Joe,

If you read my post you realize that I do want to have good civilians and thus good interaction at events.

The problem arises when it come to a setting.

In a town, it is easy, on a large open piece of ground, not as much. Excepting of course "mobile" civilians. And the numebr of mobile civilians in the scope of the hobby, even the progressive side, tends to be in the minority.

So then to have good civilians in numbers, one has to have a logical placement and a reason for them to be there, and reasonable activities to do while there.

Those are the suggestions I am looking for, as well as folks whom are willing to put inthe sweat equity to make it happen. Being only one person, I dare not try to do it all. Especially when it comes to things I am not that good at, or have no perspective on.

Hope that helps to clear things up.

[nrandolph]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Chris,

I can't remember whether you were there or not, but War On The James had a very good civilian component to it. I believe that most all civilians there tended to portray war refugees. The Union forces kept having to deal with them the whole weekend, as they went back and forth through our lines. I distinctly remember my friend and I escorted one man back out of our lines with the admonition from our officer not to come back or be shot!

Maybe one of the civilians present could give some of their perspective to help in future events.

Neil Randolph
1st WV

[Wild Rover]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

I think I was there, come to think about it, I think I was the organizer...:wink_smil

[Annette Bethke]

Re: 150th Cycle Meeting

Joe,

The problem arises when it come to a setting.

In a town, it is easy, on a large open piece of ground, not as much.

So then to have good civilians in numbers, one has to have a logical placement and a reason for them to be there, and reasonable activities to do while there.

Those are the suggestions I am looking for, as well as folks whom are willing to put inthe sweat equity to make it happen.

I applaud your desire to include civilians. However, I accept the fact that some events are just not acceptable for large or in some cases any civilian impressions. I don't think that has to be considered a bad thing. Some times civilians need to plan their own event. I don't see why the 150th cannot be operated in that way. If there is an event such as a Vicksburg scenario that would allow for civilian participation, great, plan the event with both impressions meeting together; if the Wilderness is planned then those wanting to participate in civilian impressions need to plan their own event outside the military-centric one. I don't see why this cannot be done through the meeting structure you have set up.

I would indeed like to help out on the civilian side; unfortunately, Texas is a long haul to where the majority of the events will take place. However, as I said, there is some planning happening with civilian-centric events in Texas for the 150th. If an event east is not conducive to civilian impressions, I invite y'all down here :).