150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

[SCTiger]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

I thought the mission of the NPS is to get more visitors to their sites, and to present history to the American people, not to redirect visitors to an irrelevant mainstream event. The good living history programs add a rare experience for the visitor that can't be matched by cold stones, silent cannons and relics shielded behind glass display cases.

So instead of money being paid to the NPS, it will now line the pockets of a mainstream event organizer, that was just a bad decision on their part. I applaud Jim and any other volunteer or historical interpreter that tries to support and promote our nations real battlefields and historic sites.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Pete,
Sometimes I look at reenactors and wonder just how far they can waddle with their heads up our own collective asses. That's not a shot at you, but this hobby. I know Jim's frustration, if Vicksburg told me I couldn't do something I wanted to do I would be pissed, considering Jim swallowed his pride, did a lot of smaller events to continue a working relationship. NO living history gets put on by the National Park Service with "virtually no cost". The NPS requires one black powder certified ranger for every 15 men for a firing demo, they also will have a member of staff at the site to make sure our needs our met. The National Park Service is not required to allow anyone to host a living history, lets get that straight first. Their mission is to protect America's parks and that parks assets, not open them up to whomever.

I personally hate that the event got canned, I intended on going and supporting Jim, who I have worked with before, and have a large amount of respect for.
.

Pat....I don't take it personally.. I don't think that my head is up my own A$$ on this one.... I understand the costs to the parks, and the work involved......But, I am most certain that monies could be generated to pay for virtually all the costs involved and still accumulate a decent donation to the park site. If this is not true...I will gladly pull my head out and take a breath. I don't think that we are asking the park to open the site up to "whomever". I would like to think of our community and smaller scale event as a little bit more professional than that. I can only speak for myself here, I am in this hobby for preservation and education and so I think that puts me in line with what the park sites want to accomplish. I am just confused by the rejection....There is no legitimate reason given in my opinion.

[Remember1864]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Alright! We’ve a couple issues to address so lets get started. This thread obviously holds interest for several people for many reasons. Perhaps this open dialogue will bring us all the answers which we seek.

Gregory seemed to be confused about the official mission of the NPS so that’ll be “square one”. Here is the Mission Statement of the National Park Service in their own words. “The mission of the U.S. National Park Service (NPS) is to conserve the scenery, the natural and historic objects, and the wildlife in United States' national parks, and to provide for the public's enjoyment of these features in a manner that will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.” Keep in mind, this is a generalized reference and is certainly broad in its’ scope. For a more specific insight into Shiloh and its’ mission I looked at the SNMP website and found this. “Mission Statement of Shiloh National Military Park: To foster preservation, commemoration, and interpretation of nationally significant Civil War sites in southwest Tennessee and northern Mississippi.” I see nothing in either of these statements about getting “more visitors to their sites”.

Gregory also states that he “applauds Jim and any other volunteer or historical interpreter that tries to support and promote our nations real battlefields and historic sites”. I am guessing this comment is based upon the fact that the large event being planned for the big anniversary is not on a “real battlefield”; i.e., e.g. “not on NPS property“. I get that. But I wouldn’t sweat that issue too much based on this. The NPS holds a very small portion of our historic battlefields and sites. ( At present, I am waiting on an email from an NPS employee based out of Washington, D.C. which will give us all more information regarding how much property the Park Service actually owns compared/contrasted with how much acreage is/was battlefield relative.) Spoke with a representative at Shiloh just now and here’s what he said regarding property acreage. The original battle encompassed aprox. 6000 acres. (I’m puzzled by this…I thought the “battle” was “bigger” than that….yeah, I’m learning too.) As of 2009, the park owns about 4200 acres out of that total. This is surprising to me. That’s a right good amount. I was under the impression that the NPS owned less than 10% of CW property. (Yeah, that’s the email I’m waiting on.) Looking at other NPS sites for relativity I chose Petersburg National Battlefield. PNB owns about 2500 acres as of this writing. The siege there originally covered somewhere in the neighborhood of 176 square miles. Finally, look at Franklin, TN where there is NO NPS presence. The majority of the original battlefield today lies in private hands. All that being said; my point is this…one doesn’t have to go to an NPS site to see/feel/enjoy our great Civil War Battlefields.

I agree with Patrick Landrum regarding his statements on NPS staffing and responsibility.
Having living history folks on site can certainly be beneficial to the park and the visitors.
But, yes, the logistical aspects of doing such a program can sometimes be a strain on an already short-staffed park. If this is a LH event with two to three guys who aren’t firing weapons then it’s usually no big deal. If this is an event where a lot of fellars are showing up and also presenting firing demos than the park service’s responsibility level is upped quite a bit. Not too mention hauling in porta-johns, water buffalos, issuing powder and caps, etc. If any of the group is staying the night on park property than that’s yet another issue. I don’t know how Shiloh does things at these events. Maybe there are permanent onsite restrooms. Maybe a water fountain is proximal to the event site. Perhaps LH guys are allowed to bring their own powder and caps. I’ve not experienced Shiloh in this aspect so I can’t speak intelligently on the matter. But, having put in volunteer hours at other NPS sites, I know these items can be a concern.

On the subject of the proposal to do a LH event at Shiloh, Pete said there was “more communication than this”. I’m basing ALL my thoughts and comments on what was presented by Jim. He said a “proposal has been submitted”. His next posting included the email reply from Shiloh. Shiloh said, “thank you for your e-mail”. So my question is this; what other “communication” was involved? Did anyone present a proposal “in person” to the NPS folks. What was the text/media of the proposal? Was is just one email or did it include phone calls, a power-point presentation, or any face-to-face time with the Volunteer Coordinator at the site? I’m asking because I don’t know.

Pete says Shiloh is “rejecting the CPH community and its’ smaller, more historically accurate Living History.” I don’t see the legitimacy in this comment and I certainly don’t see it as a “rejection” of the “CPH community”. Yes, I suppose it is a “rejection”. BUT, it’s only a rejection for “this group”, for “this event”, and for “these dates”. Did anyone ask if another date was doable? Pete also mentions Shiloh’s stance saying, “They do not want Living Historians in the park”, and “They don’t want us there”. I can appreciate the emotion felt by Pete and others if this is the case. But I’m not seeing much proof of this platform that the Shiloh Park is supposedly purporting. I visited their website and according to them;

“Shiloh National Military Park will host several special events during 2009. Beginning in early April with our 147th "Battle Anniversary Weekend" and running through October, these park activities will offer visitors a unique look at civilian life in and around Pittsburg Landing in the 1860s; infantry, artillery, and cavalry tactical demonstrations; and a glimpse of the military camp life shared by thousands of Civil War soldiers.
On April 4 and 5, Civil War reenactors will provide Confederate camp scenes as well as infantry, cavalry, artillery, and other demonstrations. will honor America's deceased Throughout the summer, visitors will also have the opportunity to observe infantry, cavalry, and artillery demonstrations.”

Granted, this quote is only pertinent for the 2009 calendar year. Maybe come 2010...they are stopping all LH programs. Once again, I don’t know, but I’m anxious to listen to anyone who has more insight into this obvious issue.

Let me finish by saying that this is not a personal attack on anyone. I read Jim’s initial post and just didn’t see enough evidence to support his position. That’s why I replied the way I did. I guess I’m “searching” for a “documented” answer here. Why do I care? (Good question.) For one, I , like many of you I’m sure, am a former “seasonal” for the NPS. (30MAY1999-15SEPT2001) I’ve worked on that side of the system and as such, understand to some extent, the “ins and outs” of how the NPS works. I’ve logged many hours as an NPS volunteer. Some of it in modern, civilian clothes. Other times in 1864 garb. Am I biased towards the NPS as a result of my time spent on their property? Certainly. I love the NPS to the Nth degree. Many of my friends are NPS employees and many of them have done nothing but good things for the public while serving in their respective positions. I hope this rather long post clears the air on my position and my reasoning. And yeah, much of what I am saying is “opinion” based and I understand the old saying about “opinions” and the fact that everyone has them. But, I’ve included a good deal of documentation to support my thoughts and I’d just ask that others in this thread do the same. As a member of this site, I’m under the impression that regardless of the subject; documentation and research are paramount. Thanks for the "chat". Looking forward to the replies.

[PetePaolillo]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

. “ For a more specific insight into Shiloh and its’ mission I looked at the SNMP website and found this. “Mission Statement of Shiloh National Military Park: To foster preservation, commemoration, and interpretation of nationally significant Civil War sites in southwest Tennessee and northern Mississippi.” I see nothing in either of these statements about getting “more visitors to their sites”.

With the last part in bold...They only want to adhere to this at their convience .. and in the case of the 150th not at all apparently when it comes to their property...which I might add is OURS..AMERICAN TAXPAYERS

On the subject of the proposal to do a LH event at Shiloh, Pete said there was “more communication than this”. I’m basing ALL my thoughts and comments on what was presented by Jim. He said a “proposal has been submitted”. His next posting included the email reply from Shiloh. Shiloh said, “thank you for your e-mail”. So my question is this; what other “communication” was involved? Did anyone present a proposal “in person” to the NPS folks. What was the text/media of the proposal? Was is just one email or did it include phone calls, a power-point presentation, or any face-to-face time with the Volunteer Coordinator at the site? I’m asking because I don’t know.

It is not up to me to speak for Jim Butler, If he wishes to discuss any other additional communication I am sure he can and will if he wishes. I just know that there was more than just a single email

Pete says Shiloh is “rejecting the CPH community and its’ smaller, more historically accurate Living History.” I don’t see the legitimacy in this comment and I certainly don’t see it as a “rejection” of the “CPH community”. Yes, I suppose it is a “rejection”. BUT, it’s only a rejection for “this group”, for “this event”, and for “these dates”. Did anyone ask if another date was doable? Pete also mentions Shiloh’s stance saying, “They do not want Living Historians in the park”, and “They don’t want us there”. I can appreciate the emotion felt by Pete and others if this is the case. But I’m not seeing much proof of this platform that the Shiloh Park is supposedly purporting. I visited their website and according to them;

“Shiloh National Military Park will host several special events during 2009. Beginning in early April with our 147th "Battle Anniversary Weekend" and running through October, these park activities will offer visitors a unique look at civilian life in and around Pittsburg Landing in the 1860s; infantry, artillery, and cavalry tactical demonstrations; and a glimpse of the military camp life shared by thousands of Civil War soldiers.
On April 4 and 5, Civil War reenactors will provide Confederate camp scenes as well as infantry, cavalry, artillery, and other demonstrations. will honor America's deceased Throughout the summer, visitors will also have the opportunity to observe infantry, cavalry, and artillery demonstrations.”

Granted, this quote is only pertinent for the 2009 calendar year. Maybe come 2010...they are stopping all LH programs. Once again, I don’t know, but I’m anxious to listen to anyone who has more insight into this obvious issue.

My comments are in no way reflective on all of the great NPS sites or even any other offerings, events or intentions by The great NPS site at Shiloh...My comments are only in regards to their response to a 150th anniversary proposal..and their subsequent rejection....How are my statements in any way false?...They are fact...They do not want us there on that weekend.......I am not here to bash NPS sites. If that is the way it came across, I am sorry for the misunderstanding. It is juts a shame that the Mainstream community has obviously had a greater influence on Shiloh than the CPH community, to prevent anything to occur on their site on the dates in question ...I guess we all have to take responsibility for that it seems....John in closing I do not take it personally or feel attacked...Dialogue is healthy. All I can say is that if people want a Authentic Living History in April 2012. Please call them or email them and ask them to allow one. The squeaky wheel gets the grease.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

“Mission Statement of Shiloh National Military Park: To foster preservation, commemoration, and interpretation of nationally significant Civil War sites in southwest Tennessee and northern Mississippi.”

Okay, then they are not doing much in regards to their goals of "interpretation" or "commemoration". While nearly all other NPS sites will have sort LH program for the 150th, one must ask why they are not doing so?


"I don’t know how Shiloh does things at these events. Maybe there are permanent onsite restrooms. Maybe a water fountain is proximal to the event site. Perhaps LH guys are allowed to bring their own powder and caps. I’ve not experienced Shiloh in this aspect so I can’t speak intelligently on the matter. But, having put in volunteer hours at other NPS sites, I know these items can be a concern."

It all depends where they wish for the demonstrations to be set up. We have done priograms near the VC and there is a permenant restroom and water supply there. If we were out near Duncan Field then they supplied a port-a-john and buffalo for water. Yes, those are costs. But, who pays for these costs? Yes, you guessed it...the taxpayer. You make it seem like they are doing us a big favor by letting us volunteer to give them free demonstrations at a site that is staffed and funded by the very volunteers.

"On the subject of the proposal to do a LH event at Shiloh, Pete said there was “more communication than this”. I’m basing ALL my thoughts and comments on what was presented by Jim. He said a “proposal has been submitted”. His next posting included the email reply from Shiloh. Shiloh said, “thank you for your e-mail”. So my question is this; what other “communication” was involved? Did anyone present a proposal “in person” to the NPS folks. What was the text/media of the proposal? Was is just one email or did it include phone calls, a power-point presentation, or any face-to-face time with the Volunteer Coordinator at the site? I’m asking because I don’t know."

I am not going to post all the years of evidence dealing with Shiloh NPS. I am not going to grind that ax to the ground publicy here. You admit you do not know how Shiloh does thing and I am not going to present all the dirty laundry over the years to defend my point. You don't need to believe me nor trust me. But, the fact I have a history with the site in putting blood and sweat and some of my own money into programs there is a fact.

"Pete says Shiloh is “rejecting the CPH community and its’ smaller, more historically accurate Living History.” I don’t see the legitimacy in this comment and I certainly don’t see it as a “rejection” of the “CPH community”. Yes, I suppose it is a “rejection”. BUT, it’s only a rejection for “this group”, for “this event”, and for “these dates”. Did anyone ask if another date was doable? Pete also mentions Shiloh’s stance saying, “They do not want Living Historians in the park”, and “They don’t want us there”. I can appreciate the emotion felt by Pete and others if this is the case."

Yes, Pete may be putting in more emotion than needed. But, I will take Pete's passion over blinded myrmidons any day. For me this, I would be lying if I didn't take this personal. As I have donated time, sweat and personal funds for the site. My ancestor fought and was wounded there. HOWEVER, I am mainly posting this because it NOT a rejection of "this group". The park stated it was a rejection of ALL groups for the annivesary of the 150th.

"Let me finish by saying that this is not a personal attack on anyone. I read Jim’s initial post and just didn’t see enough evidence to support his position. That’s why I replied the way I did. I guess I’m “searching” for a “documented” answer here. Why do I care? (Good question.) For one, I , like many of you I’m sure, am a former “seasonal” for the NPS. (30MAY1999-15SEPT2001) I’ve worked on that side of the system and as such, understand to some extent, the “ins and outs” of how the NPS works. I’ve logged many hours as an NPS volunteer. Some of it in modern, civilian clothes. Other times in 1864 garb. Am I biased towards the NPS as a result of my time spent on their property? Certainly. I love the NPS to the Nth degree. Many of my friends are NPS employees and many of them have done nothing but good things for the public while serving in their respective positions."

I know you are just trying to debate the points here and I don' take it personal, but I also don't feel the need to feed or post all of my interactions with the site. Since you are stating you are biased then you clearly can not view this very objectively either. If you can't see the good or the bad or even accept someone elses criticsm of one specific NPS site, then you are blind to reality. I am sick of government beauracrats back slapping each other. There are GREAT NPS workers and sites and there are CRAPPY ones. There are GREAT workers at Toyota and CRAPPY ones...but the crappy ones usually get fired. See my point.

Jim Butler

Beauracricies exist to justify beauracricies!

[ILYankee5]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

It is a shame there won't be a LH going on that weekend at Shiloh. I have viewed this thread quite a bit as Shiloh is one of my favorite sites to visit and have always wanted to participate in a LH there...on the site. I credit Mr. Butler for trying to get something set up there...maybe they will change their tune. I am sure as a reenactor it is probably one of the most amazing experiences there are. However, in one sense I do see Mr. Marler's point about saying they are rejecting the CPH community. I don't think the NPS plays Us vs. Them wars. It is my hope they do change their tune though and have a LH at the park as not only it is a rich and rewarding experience for those who come by and visit the park, but also one for the living historians that put on the LH.

[Remember1864]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Excellent. Now we’re getting somewhere. Thanks Pete and Jim for your quick replies. Yes, it is a shame that the “mainstream” community seems to get things more in their favor. (If that indeed be the case.) But, you all know as well as I that when it comes to LH interp at NPS sites, many on the NPS side of the fence neither care or are knowledgeable in understanding the difference between “period-correct” fellows and those of the “farbish” ilk. I know as well as you that the NPS perspective can be this; warm bodies in soldier attire, campfire smoke, and guns that go “boom”. Quite honestly, but not surprisingly, the best historians aren’t always given the due they deserve. But, that’s life. It’s the same issue we all had back in the day when we were with “mainstream” units. I like Pete’s comment about emailing or calling the site in regards to the possibility of resurrecting this event. That’s a reasonable reaction and yeah Pete, I love the phrase; “the squeaky wheel gets the grease”. So true. And very applicable here.

As for Jim’s comments, I do see “hurt” and “disappointment”. Too bad it had to turn out this way when it’s obvious; Jim has a vested interest in Shiloh and has given much of his personal time and effort to improve the site and educate the public on it’s import. But, I’m of the school of thought where one doesn’t tout one’s selflessness or volunteer efforts. I would ask what was the impetus of the volunteer effort to begin with. Was it accolades and a pat on the back, or was it for the “greater good” of the history of our country?

Yes…I am biased. I said so. That’s what we call a “non-issue”. But that bias doesn’t prevent me from researching and presenting the facts in an unbiased format. Publishing negative comments on the AC or other forums regarding the NPS or more specifically, Shiloh National Military Park is generally gonna bring a response from someone who doesn’t agree with said negativity.

Finally…I don’t buy into the whole “I’m a taxpayer” so I deserve this, that, and the other. WE ALL ARE TAXPAYERS! As one, I don’t feel the NPS owes me special treatment or an explanation when they do something I don’t agree with. While it would be nice and a caveat of a “perfect world”, it’s not realistic for the time and world we live in. Should anyone want to pursue this through proper channels I would recommend this “order of battle” with respect to making contact with the folks at Shiloh for a potential event. 1) Volunteer/Reenactor Coordinator 2) Chief of Interp 3) Superintendent. If a satisfactory answer isn’t achieved then perhaps a call/email/letter to the NPS home office would be the next step.
Don’t get angry…get things done. Or, as I’m always fond of saying; “don’t fix the blame, fix the problem”.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

It is a shame there won't be a LH going on that weekend at Shiloh. I have viewed this thread quite a bit as Shiloh is one of my favorite sites to visit and have always wanted to participate in a LH there...on the site. I credit Mr. Butler for trying to get something set up there...maybe they will change their tune. I am sure as a reenactor it is probably one of the most amazing experiences there are. However, in one sense I do see Mr. Marler's point about saying they are rejecting the CPH community. I don't think the NPS plays Us vs. Them wars. It is my hope they do change their tune though and have a LH at the park as not only it is a rich and rewarding experience for those who come by and visit the park, but also one for the living historians that put on the LH.

Seth,

You are right. I never saw this an 'Us' vs. 'Them' reason from the park. Frankly, I am not sure if they recognize even what that is or that there are two hobbies (or more).

Jim Butler

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

As for Jim’s comments, I do see “hurt” and “disappointment”. Too bad it had to turn out this way when it’s obvious; Jim has a vested interest in Shiloh and has given much of his personal time and effort to improve the site and educate the public on it’s import. But, I’m of the school of thought where one doesn’t tout one’s selflessness or volunteer efforts. I would ask what was the impetus of the volunteer effort to begin with. Was it accolades and a pat on the back, or was it for the “greater good” of the history of our country?

Finally…I don’t buy into the whole “I’m a taxpayer” so I deserve this, that, and the other. WE ALL ARE TAXPAYERS! As one, I don’t feel the NPS owes me special treatment or an explanation when they do something I don’t agree with. While it would be nice and a caveat of a “perfect world”, it’s not realistic for the time and world we live in. Should anyone want to pursue this through proper channels I would recommend this “order of battle” with respect to making contact with the folks at Shiloh for a potential event. 1) Volunteer/Reenactor Coordinator 2) Chief of Interp 3) Superintendent. If a satisfactory answer isn’t achieved then perhaps a call/email/letter to the NPS home office would be the next step.
Don’t get angry…get things done. Or, as I’m always fond of saying; “don’t fix the blame, fix the problem”.

My interest in organzing a LH at Shiloh is nothing new. Many others have done it successfully. I was interested in my ancestor who fought there, did research and then contacted the site and my comrades in the SRR to see if we could make it happen. We did the Federal program in 05,06,07 and 08 was cancelled. If you are crazy enough to organize any event in hopes of getting 'pats on the back', you are fooling yourself. Because for every atta-boy you get there will be two people there to criticize the effort. I would never dare to imply a volunteer organizer of any event (mainstream or otherwise) a being self serving.

Jim Butler

[Mississippian]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

I think a call to my Congressman Travis Childers, (a Dem who happens to represent North Mississippi and will be in the political fight of his life next year) might help some. For several years now Mississippi's Congressional delegation has been working hard to increase tourism to Shiloh and Corinth, since that is one of the big draws to the area. I think if someone pointed out the lost local revenue to the pols, they might put some pressure on the Park. Pols desperate to keep their jobs have done worse. :wink_smil

If Jim wants to play that card I'd be more than willing to help......

Will MacDonald
Oxford, MS
WIG/Tramp Brigade Mess

[Coatsy]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Question for Jim:

Have you considered an alternate weekend other than the same one as MEGA FEST 2012? Perhaps the weekend before or after. Perhaps two weekends before or after. I know it is not the same as the anniversery weekend, but that hasn't stopped other quality LHs at othe NPS sites that were not on the "anniversery weekend." ie Chickamuaga, Stones River, Ft. Pulaski, etc.

Perhaps the same/similar program on a weekend "near" the anniversery would work.

I'm with Pat Landrum that I was ready go in 2012. (all Resacas aside Pat)

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Question for Jim:

Have you considered an alternate weekend other than the same one as MEGA FEST 2012? Perhaps the weekend before or after. Perhaps two weekends before or after. I know it is not the same as the anniversery weekend, but that hasn't stopped other quality LHs at othe NPS sites that were not on the "anniversery weekend." ie Chickamuaga, Stones River, Ft. Pulaski, etc.

Perhaps the same/similar program on a weekend "near" the anniversery would work.

I'm with Pat Landrum that I was ready go in 2012. (all Resacas aside Pat)

No, is the answer to ANY spring dates at Shiloh in 2012.
Here is their response:
"During the spring of 2012, Shiloh National Military Park will not be
sponsoring a living history event to commemorate the 150th anniversary of
the Battle of Shiloh, for the reasons discussed in previous emails.

-Woody Harrell"

Jim Butler

[Abrams]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Its a real shame no LH event will be held on the 150th anniversary. It was a trip to Shiloh I took in 2006 that spurred me on to join this hobby/obsession. I was there for the 2008 LH event that was rained out.

I got there 3 days early to tour, refresh myself on the details of the battle, do some scouting around, and was not at home to get the email or phone call from Jim that the event was canceled due to 4-5 days of incessant rain before the event. I did not consider it a wasted trip, but I was disappointed when I saw the Sibley tent site was soaked and had standing water in places and the sign communicating the fact the LH event was canceled. It was kind of a dream of mine to participate on the anniversary of the battle on the actual hallowed ground.

The park rangers were very accommodating to me, and apologized about the cancellation, but I could see mother nature was at fault, not them. A big ranger with a pony-tail in particular seemed to value the fact that living historians were taking our time and money to help the park come alive for spectators, and that I had made the trip for nothing. They did their best to make sure my trip was not "wasted" including free tours that normally cost money. I had finally gotten a decent Federal kit together, (only took two years to do, heh) and mentioned that I sure would like to wear it in the park. The guy with the pony-tail said that would be fine, but no guns or bayonet could be allowed, and with local sentiments, maybe I'd be more comfortable in gray, (he mentioned with a chuckle.)

So I got dressed up in my blue wool, put on my accouts, and with a canteen and some hard tack and jerky in my haversack, I walked the ground starting with the before dawn walk/tour down to Fraley Field where we formed into a skirmish line and we met up with people walking the confederate route. It was inspiring to say the least. The first signs of people moving through the fog towards us in the early dawn light was eerie, and I was very glad they were not armed either, heh, and I had to wonder at the fear and adrenaline that had to be running through the fellows that were there at the time of the battle. Almost a "period" moment, even though I was the only person in uniform.

I handed out hardtack to boy scouts, got my picture taken with several people, and learned a lot that trip. I had a blast even though the event was canceled.

I guess the point of my rambling post is to point out my experience with the folks running Shiloh was that many of them do appreciate our contributions to making the park come alive for spectators, at least at the level of the basic rangers. Maybe its the "bosses" that are so busy with bureaucratic necessities that are limiting our participation due to the logistics or whatever. The rangers there are "good people" in my book.

Maybe its my disappointment that the first park I really want to participate in a living history at, the park that inspired me to join the hobby, I just cannot seem to be able to get to do.

Jim has worked hard and for years with making these things happen, and I can understand his frustration. I feel it too, just for different reasons I reckon. I appreciate all you do to try and make things happen there Jim. Thanks.

I just hope you keep up the good fight Jim, and maybe some day I will get to participate at a living history event in Shiloh. On an anniversary. On the hallowed ground.

[Jim of The SRR]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

Its a real shame no LH event will be held on the 150th anniversary. It was a trip to Shiloh I took in 2006 that spurred me on to join this hobby/obsession. I was there for the 2008 LH event that was rained out.

I got there 3 days early to tour, refresh myself on the details of the battle, do some scouting around, and was not at home to get the email or phone call from Jim that the event was canceled due to 4-5 days of incessant rain before the event. I did not consider it a wasted trip, but I was disappointed when I saw the Sibley tent site was soaked and had standing water in places and the sign communicating the fact the LH event was canceled. It was kind of a dream of mine to participate on the anniversary of the battle on the actual hallowed ground.

The park rangers were very accommodating to me, and apologized about the cancellation, but I could see mother nature was at fault, not them. A big ranger with a pony-tail in particular seemed to value the fact that living historians were taking our time and money to help the park come alive for spectators, and that I had made the trip for nothing. They did their best to make sure my trip was not "wasted" including free tours that normally cost money. I had finally gotten a decent Federal kit together, (only took two years to do, heh) and mentioned that I sure would like to wear it in the park. The guy with the pony-tail said that would be fine, but no guns or bayonet could be allowed, and with local sentiments, maybe I'd be more comfortable in gray, (he mentioned with a chuckle.)

So I got dressed up in my blue wool, put on my accouts, and with a canteen and some hard tack and jerky in my haversack, I walked the ground starting with the before dawn walk/tour down to Fraley Field where we formed into a skirmish line and we met up with people walking the confederate route. It was inspiring to say the least. The first signs of people moving through the fog towards us in the early dawn light was eerie, and I was very glad they were not armed either, heh, and I had to wonder at the fear and adrenaline that had to be running through the fellows that were there at the time of the battle. Almost a "period" moment, even though I was the only person in uniform.

I handed out hardtack to boy scouts, got my picture taken with several people, and learned a lot that trip. I had a blast even though the event was canceled.

I guess the point of my rambling post is to point out my experience with the folks running Shiloh was that many of them do appreciate our contributions to making the park come alive for spectators, at least at the level of the basic rangers. Maybe its the "bosses" that are so busy with bureaucratic necessities that are limiting our participation due to the logistics or whatever. The rangers there are "good people" in my book.

Maybe its my disappointment that the first park I really want to participate in a living history at, the park that inspired me to join the hobby, I just cannot seem to be able to get to do.

Jim has worked hard and for years with making these things happen, and I can understand his frustration. I feel it too, just for different reasons I reckon. I appreciate all you do to try and make things happen there Jim. Thanks.

I just hope you keep up the good fight Jim, and maybe some day I will get to participate at a living history event in Shiloh. On an anniversary. On the hallowed ground.

Ron,

Glad Shiloh was your epiphany to become one of us crazy reenactors. It is disappointing, but at the same time there are many other sites willing to put forth the effort to have a 150th Living History that will be accomodate our efforts to eduacte the public and honor the men who fought on those fields.
I know Chickamauga is one of them!

Thanks,
Jim Butler

[Mark Choate]

Re: 150th Shiloh Federal LH Program - April 2012

I must agree completely with what John Marler just said regarding Shiloh. Our unit has participated in LH's at the park on the anniversary weekend for nearly twenty years. Our Capt. grew up and still lives on a farm just adjacent to the park and I cannot imagine a finer group of men and women than those that work at this park. Typically, we will set up a campaign style camp and participate in two demonstrations on Saturday as well as Sunday. The crowds who attend average 1200 per demonstration. After the demonstrations, we have hundreds of people come through our camp with many, many questions. We try to handle them in a 1st person character and the public really loves it. Highly Educational and rewarding, indeed!

We are able to camp across the field from the Hornets Nest next to where the CS artillery was formed. Woody, the Director has always made us feel welcome and allows us the freedom to tour the field on horseback on Sunday morning and we actually ride to Shiloh Church for services. It truly has been their policy not to try to compete with large reenactments when the scheduling of the two clash. There is no ulterior motive here.

I have participated in LH's all over the southeast (Chickamauga, Stones River, Ft. Donelson, Vicksburg, Parkers Crossroads, Brices Crossroads and others and I rank the folks and the reception at Shiloh at the very top!

Thank you,
Mark Choate