Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Nothing really has changed all that much in all the time I have been in the hobby and I do not expect it to. What I see being described is to me the natural course of the hobby over the years, it ebbs and flows in one direction then another always returning to about the same place it was.

I discussed this very topic some months ago with another fellow who has been in this hobby about as long as I have maybe a bit longer. What we saw was that with each new crop of reenactors they "discover" a new problem in the hobby offering solutions never realizing that the topic had been discovered, solutions offered and plans made many times over the years with no changes coming. Unfortunately developing the type organization you describe would be akin to herding cats - too many wants and needs, too many egos, too many reasons for an individual to be in the hobby in the first place. If you could pull it off it would be great but I have seen this movie played out too many times over the years to have much hope in it succeeding on anything other than a local/unit or regional level.

"But if we continiue to follow those who wish to be worshiped and those who can not lead..."

This is not unique to Civil War reenacting; you will see the same situations in Rev War, WWII and all the others. For the most part those in charge of units are there simply because they won the popularity contest that put them there. Their status is not based on any real experience or military training; they just got there because they were liked better than the other guy. Unfortunately once they get there getting them out is a big problem and if removal is successful the end result is usually that a unit disintegrates. Many times a poor leader is kept in his position for the good of the unit because to remove him would destroy what people were trying to maintain in the first place. All this is simply the nature of the beast we call reenacting.

I do not see any reason to believe the hobby as a whole is headed to hell in a hand basket. My only reason for commenting in this thread was to assure Abel that he was not getting into the "dying end of the hobby".

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Jim,
I truly respect your long service in this reeacting community. I also appriciate the long sevice you have given to this Web-site. But Jim, if we continue on the course we are on now, we will simply find ourselves walking away wondering what the hell went wrong...much like CLeburnes did.

By use of this Web-Site we have the means to organize, we have the means to create a new Mission Statement. Hell, if we can have polls voting on what matches to buy and who has the best picture on the "Cover of the Rolling Stone" we can use this site for the true organization, voting and creation of the future of our hobby for the next ten years.

But if we continiue to follow those who wish to be worshiped and those who can not lead, we will be following the same future of the dinosaurs. I simply can not put my head in the sand. But then again how to you describe a rainbow to a blind man.

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Guys,

These arguments / discussions have been going on for as long as I have been in the hobby, if any thing has been constant it has been these. The problems and solutions have not changed only the names of the people presenting them.

Is any thing really going to change? It is highly doubtful, I have not seen it change in 32 years of people trying to change it and if they haven't changed anything in 32 years it is extremely unlikely they will be changing things any time soon.

As I said in my original post in this thread - "Go out and enjoy yourself". Don't worry about things that are beyond your ability to change them, keep your little corner of the hobby squared away and you will enjoy yourself.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Thanks for the PMs guys.

Prehaps I was hasty in my decision.

Or maybe I was trying to show how something very simple could be what turns some possible new people away from trying the hobby.

I apologize for having to use Jim's post to crudely show what could happen to a new person thinking about joining the ranks. I know it was just a come back to my post and no offense was taken at all. In no way did it really turned me off the hobby.

I do not think the hobby is dying, but after reading these forums for several months now, I do think it is changing and new blood will have to be brought in.

While I have never been on the battlefield as a participant, I have been to many events as a spectator because I have always been interested in history. To be honest, probably more to the tune of the revolutionary war, but somehow I feel closer to the civil war. Maybe it is because I am a southener.

So, I am sorry for the interuption in the flow, carry on.

One last thought. I think some recruiting could be done at the actual events. Has anything like that ever been tried? I have been to many events and I was the one that actually had to make the effort to find out what I needed to get started and basically all I was really told was about this website. I guess everyone was just laying around too tired to care, but maybe print out flyers people could take and who to get in touch with if interested in participating. I am not really the person to know these things yet, but I say, fire as many people up as possible.

[Dale Beasley]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gentlemen and those of you from Texas,

I am going to be brief. There are people on this thread who really like to hear themselves talk. There are people on this thread who like to throw around names, who strive to be apart of cliques and seek to be worshiped. There are people on this thread who simply have no vision and who could not find their rear-ends with both hands when it comes to Military Leadership and Organization.

Now do I have your attention?

Please listen to me for just a min. then make your own decision. I have an interest here. I will retire from the ARMY soon and want to be a Private in a place representing a Military Unit. I have been apart of an organization which built the ARMY that invaded Iraq. And the same crap I heard then, I am hearing now.

When you elect leaders of Organizations don't vote on the ones with good jackets, dont vote for the ones who have organized events if they cant lead troops. Vote for the ones who have proven ability to lead troops.

And if you all decide to create a Brigade to incorporate the BNs, do not bog-down on the naming of the companies, do away with the "Mess Mentality" and create companies. Create a Military UNIT...I mean you try to dress like real soldiers, then create a Brigade that everyone can rally around.

I watched the reeancting Unit CLEBURNES fall apart becasue of no Vision, and much of the same "Mess Mentality" we are seeing now.

Its time to replace those who want to be worshiped, it is time to replace those who have the "Mess Mentality" with those of Vision. We could grow, but you would have to build a Brigade first.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

If that is the way you see it, get out now and save yourself the headache.

Thanks for the insightful words of wisdom. I have suddenly decided maybe this is not for me after all. I do not need anymore "headaches" in my life and if that is how a seasoned reenactor describes the events, it must be so.

I suppose my first gut feelings on reading this thread were correct afterall.

I will take stock and head over to the for sale forum shortly.

[Old Reb]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Having had a chance to read the entire thread and chew on it for a while, I am pleased that no one has threatened to do the Dance of the Bowie on someone for calling them a yellow bellied poser puke or banished them to the eternal hell of cyber space. I applaud the moderators for allowing such a free discourse and venting. Back in the good old days I would have been banned, but things do improve and that is a positive. What I read is some folks get riled when other folks don't come to this or that event. I operate under this premise; "I go where I want to go with whom I want to go with." If folks don't want to attend an event, or schedule one on top of another, that is too bad, but shit happens. I know many of you because I have been in the field with you. I like most of you and don't care spit for a few, but it doesn't matter much, because we still don't shoot real bullets and we get to go home on Sundays. Regardless, I think the discussion and the venting is a good thing for our end of the hobby. But it still boils down to going where you want to go with whom you want to go. It is also clear that there are fewer true campaigners than the keyboard folks that call themselves campaigners because they bought a good kit and hung out with the “right” crowd and attended the overly hyped but disappointing events, but that is another story saved for another day.

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Thanks for the reasurance Jim. But, I also remember people predicting $5 a gallon gas, and I have almost seen it happen.

If that is the way you see it, get out now and save yourself the headache.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Abel,

Like Jim said, stick around long enough and you'll see people in "our" side of the hobby get at each other’s throats. This side of the hobby has a way of hurting itself more than anything. I hope though...what you are seeing here is perhaps a step forward in communication and cooperation.

Regards,

Cody G. Farrell

Reenacting as everything else seems to have periods of old hurt feelings and frustrations rearing their heads at times.

I think it is probably just the natural progression of things.

My brother was recently killed in an ATV accident and I am somewhat haunted over a tiff we had many years ago that we never really made up over. I have decided small things really do not matter and I am looking at the reenacting community as a large family.

You can have your disagreements and hurt feelings, but in the end, does it really matter? Or is it really our own fault if we hang on to those feelings too long?

And I hope to see many years of use out of my recently purchased firearm as it amounts to all my birthday and Christmas presents for a few years yet to come I fear.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Abel,

Rest your fears of getting into the "dying end of the hobby". People have been predicting the end of the hobby for most of the 32 years I have been involved with CW reenacting. Go out and enjoy yourself.

Thanks for the reasurance Jim. But, I also remember people predicting $5 a gallon gas, and I have almost seen it happen.

[Cfarrell]

Abel,

Like Jim said, stick around long enough and you'll see people in "our" side of the hobby get at each other’s throats. This side of the hobby has a way of hurting itself more than anything. I hope though...what you are seeing here is perhaps a step forward in communication and cooperation.

Regards,

Cody G. Farrell

[JimKindred]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Abel,

Rest your fears of getting into the "dying end of the hobby". People have been predicting the end of the hobby for most of the 32 years I have been involved with CW reenacting. Go out and enjoy yourself.

[swamp two]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Gentlemen,

As a new recruit to this hobby, it is a bit distressing to me to see how this thread is playing out.

Having read this thread over several days and spending several hours thinking about how it makes me feel, I have to say, I took Terry's inital post simply as a way of asking why people had decided not to attend Marmaduke. And after reading thru the replys I think he can safely be assured it is not anything personal against him.

I seem to be picking up on some hard feeling from several posters for things I would have no way of understanding at this point, but what does seem to be coming through loud and clear is there are a lot of people passionate about the hobby, but circumstances prevent attending everything.

In my own case, I just decided it was something I wanted to do in March. I have slowly been buying the kit and am really looking forward to my first time. However, in between my deciding to do it and actually doing it, I found out I was to be a father for the first time. In fact, it is a first for the both of us, and we are not exactly young anymore and I have to admit, while I was really gung ho, my attention is now split so I can only imagine how life would get in the way of someone that has been doing it a while not to even mention the soaring cost I have been seeing on everything.

I would never say, can't we all just get along, because I am old enough to know that is not going to happen. But there appears to be enough sound leadership around to hold this whole thing together.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do not see the passion for the hobby going away in the near future, although because sometimes real life does get in the way, maybe there will have to be changing expectations of the event organizers.

I for one hope I am not joining the dying end of the hobby and I don't think I am.

[Kiev Thomason]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

Well, I can tell you Duffield isn't going to have two companies like was proposed. We cancelled my company due to the same issue you guys are having ... nobody registering. Honestly, I don't blame the ONV or the WIG or the Trans-Miss. In fact I don't blame anybody, without getting political, I can say with some certainty "it's the economy stupid".

Last I heard Stones River didn't have the numbers they wanted either. I don't think it's profitable to turn on each other... we're all experiencing the same issue.

I see that alot of events are having the same problems...however if WE turn on each other all we are doing is backing up all the things that the Other side of the hobby has said for years...we eat our own and don't play well with others.
I agree with what Pat said .There are some big shoulders around here if you feel like you have something you have to say ...well say it!I hope that we are all men and can talk as such.We have all taking the field together and shared many tough miles and however I am not mad though I might should be when it feels as if my friends are being beat over the head I am not.Sometimes you just walk away.I am glad in a way that some folks said whats on there minds simply because event stacking is becoming a bit of a pain.WE all need to talk a little more and ensure that this kinda finger pointing does not happen in the future.
I myself feel a little bad ....the AG did vote this as a max effort event.Well then life took hold and bam!We lost folks left and right be it school ,work or in my case a vacation (badly needed) with my wife who just gave me my son 17 months ago.So in short we don't always get to go and play with the boys when we want.
Like Brian and Pat and Herb I went to New York and Some of us went to Pea ridge .Those were long trips to support folks.I have went to almost two to three event every month for 11 years.I don't feel as if I have smacked anyone in the sack if I miss one even though I like the dudes who are throwing the party.I still plan on coming to piney woods ...if I can make it work.
I will close by saying this.I agree with alot that has been said here ...by both sides.Honor and speaking up when needed are things that are really important to me.I feel that there will be some good come out of this thread.I like the ideas of meetings and talking this stuff out.Will it work?Will see very soon I hope.Like Fred said ..we all know each other and we can get around or through all this .It will just take time and effort from all the groups who are putting on events which no days is everyone and their brother.

[Old Reb]

Re: Why does our event histories keep repeating themselves?

I go off to the mountains to live with the coyotes and come back to this thread! I will be in Missouri next months. My comrades will be there. I don't care about nothing else.