Pending Forum Closure

[Diplogeek]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

For what it's worth, I went in a couple of days ago and subscribed. I've been meaning to for a while, but it kept slipping my mind, so this thread was good in that it gave me the kick in the pants that I needed to get it done. I expect others are the same.

All I can say is that this forum was hugely helpful to me before I actually started reenacting in that it allowed me to do a lot of initial research and avoid a lot of mistakes (especially as far as gear purchases) that in turn helped my impression. For that alone, I have no problem shelling out some money to help make rent, as it were. I recommend AC to people all the time as a place to get good information about various reenacting-related stuff, and it's been a great resource for me. I hope very much that it stays open, because I think it does pull people toward campaigning or, at the very least, towards honing their mainstream impressions and doing things because they're authentic, not because it looks cool or has been passed down in reenactor lore or whatever.

So thanks to the site team for the work they do to allow us to have this forum at all, and I hope people are chipping in enough to keep things running.

- Al Jones

[tsgalloway]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

I would hate to see this site go down. Do we roughly know how much money we are down for the month? I'll be re-upping shortly. Jim/Paul/Admins, thanks for all you do and have done.

[JimKindred]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Probably a poor choice of words on my part when I started this thread but we were within 30 days of shutting the site down when I posted that. Prior to someone's suggestion of asking for contributions I was all for shutting the site down if it could not support itself.

When other forums run a little short they send out a message telling people that the site doesn't run itself and they could use some cash. Somebody steps up and it gets taken care of. But this announcement comes under the dramatic heading of "Pending Forum Closure." This implies immediate crisis despite steps taken in the past to raise money, including offering paid subscriptions and charging vendors.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

If you wish to make a charge, please do so. Otherwise, I will assume you did not fully understand the tone of your words and leave the comment about "attempts at over-governance are specious" as carelessness.

I am not trying to "ruin" anything. I do think if anyone solicits for funds they should be honest and forthright about its purpose. If the AC's purpose is to be a place for information like Ancestry.com then drop the pretense there is interest in those who actually try to go out and live history, or that even a portion of the money raised is going to preservation if all it is doing is keeping open the place internet blaggards can tell other people how important they are. THAT is specious, veiling an aura of historical research around shameless self-promotion and possibly personal financial gain at the expense of fulfilling a promise to support the campaigner movement and provide funds to preservation.

With that, I will stop "ruining" the keyboard kampaigners experience. Please spend my money as you see fit.

Your subscription has been refunded.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Point of Order. We didn't reactivate the $25 Charter Membership subscription level until yesterday - although you were apparently seeing a notice about subscribing a Charter Member and $5 going to Preservation, you couldn't actually subscribe at that level for the last two years.

We have gotten a handful of charter memberships since reactivating that yesterday and we will honor that commitment and make that donation on their behalf.

[Pvt Schnapps]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Agree with Mark 100%. $15 is a bargain for all the great information on the AC, however aptly named. If some of you have an ox to gore with the hosts, moderators, or the site itself, please don't ruin it for the rest of us who appreciate what's been done. Your attempts at over-governance are specious.

I respectfully disagree. When other forums run a little short they send out a message telling people that the site doesn't run itself and they could use some cash. Somebody steps up and it gets taken care of. But this announcement comes under the dramatic heading of "Pending Forum Closure." This implies immediate crisis despite steps taken in the past to raise money, including offering paid subscriptions and charging vendors.

In that context -- crisis despite past funding efforts -- it seems natural to ask how much is needed above what already comes in. Personally I don't need, want, or request an audit. But a little info like "we need five hundred bucks above what we get from vendors (x) and subscribers (x) to keep us in business" would make a huge difference.

A scare title like "Pending Forum Closure" also seems naturally to lead to a discussion of what the service is worth. Some of the people now raising questions have contributed to this site and have followed it for a long time. If they now have doubts I would think that the hosts, moderators, and the rest of us have some interest in hearing them out and resolving their concerns.

If quality events are now getting announced on Facebook instead of here, folks running this site might want to ask those event organizers why. It's sure not because Facebook serves the end better.

If old-timers seem a little huffy, folks running this site might want to understand that, too. A couple of pages ago I saw a former contributor made fun of because he kvetched about money although his two-year membership ran out more than a year ago. Heck, at least he paid for a two-year membership. How many people do that? Does it make any sense to razz one of the small percentage of members who have EVER paid for the privilege? While we're talking about all the benefits the AC provides, let's not overlook some of the attitudinal costs.

I confess that with the exception of a fifty dollar check sent in about a decade ago, I've contributed nothing but a little content. I'm on the fence about more; a lot depends on what direction this thread takes. I don't think that's unreasonable.

[Jeff Nichols]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Well put, Peter

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Agree with Mark 100%. $15 is a bargain for all the great information on the AC, however aptly named. If some of you have an ox to gore with the hosts, moderators, or the site itself, please don't ruin it for the rest of us who appreciate what's been done. Your attempts at over-governance are specious.

If you wish to make a charge, please do so. Otherwise, I will assume you did not fully understand the tone of your words and leave the comment about "attempts at over-governance are specious" as carelessness.

I am not trying to "ruin" anything. I do think if anyone solicits for funds they should be honest and forthright about its purpose. If the AC's purpose is to be a place for information like Ancestry.com then drop the pretense there is interest in those who actually try to go out and live history, or that even a portion of the money raised is going to preservation if all it is doing is keeping open the place internet blaggards can tell other people how important they are. THAT is specious, veiling an aura of historical research around shameless self-promotion and possibly personal financial gain at the expense of fulfilling a promise to support the campaigner movement and provide funds to preservation.

With that, I will stop "ruining" the keyboard kampaigners experience. Please spend my money as you see fit.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Peter -
I said a long time ago we weren't continuing to give money to preservation because we didn't have the money to. If you're calling me a liar and a thief, which it really reads like you are, I'll solve this really quickly by just closing this whole thing down right now.

[Pvt_Sullivan]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

I just checked and Szabo has the exact same issue - and doesn't seem to be providing a full account either. Interesting to note - he pays almost to the dollar for his server what we do for ours:

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?30501-Donation-Button-is-Back-Your-help-is-needed&highlight=donation

Nobody is hiding anything - if Jim Kindred wants to provide a full accounting going forward he's welcome to. It's his call.

Actually Paul, I disagree.

If CWR is as good as the AC then what they do might be material to this discussion. Are you saying CWR reaches the same audience and should be held to the same level of scrutiny?

Since contributions have been solicited on here, there has always been lip service to money going to "preservation". Where is the accounting for that? What organizations or sites have received those funds? How much has been donated? If none has been donated, then it is disingenuous to solicit contributions with that promise if that portion of funds doesn't go to preservation. I hate two classes of people... Liars and Thieves... and if there is a promise to send funds to preservation and it has not been done, everyone involved in the decisions is in one of those two classes as far as I'm concerned.

[roundshot]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Agree with Mark 100%. $15 is a bargain for all the great information on the AC, however aptly named. If some of you have an ox to gore with the hosts, moderators, or the site itself, please don't ruin it for the rest of us who appreciate what's been done. Your attempts at over-governance are specious.

[paulcalloway]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

I just checked and Szabo has the exact same issue - and doesn't seem to be providing a full account either. Interesting to note - he pays almost to the dollar for his server what we do for ours:

http://www.cwreenactors.com/forum/showthread.php?30501-Donation-Button-is-Back-Your-help-is-needed&highlight=donation

Nobody is hiding anything - if Jim Kindred wants to provide a full accounting going forward he's welcome to. It's his call.

[teufelhund]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

The "FOR SALE" section has been modified to be viewable/avaliable to paid members only from what I've read above.

Don't see what the big deal is about paying $12 or $15 a year to have access to the forum's information. Lots of good stuff here. Don't give a dang about any freakin' financial statements from the folks that run this forum. All your doing is giving another reason to have it shut down because it will turn into a pain in the pooper for them.

[Yellowhammer Rebel]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

I was just wondering why the for sale folder has disappeared?

I'm just curious.

[GrumpyDave]

Re: Pending Forum Closure

Doesn't seem unreasonable for folks who are being asked to make financial contributions to ask to see the statements showing where the monies are being allocated...that's just common courtesy, not to mention basic common sense.

To expect donations in the absence of such pertinent information is a bit ridiculous, to tell you the truth.

Where's the "Like" button?:wink_smil