Infantry Sword "commands"

[handy.harris]

Hi guys!

I hope you can help me out with something. I am looking for a drill manual or the likes which describes the commands given with the saber/sword. I can see officers doing them, but cannot find any written manual about it.

Are there "commands" given for "forward march", "by files left/right", "charge"...
is there something like "support arms" "right shoulder shift" for the saber/sword?

Sorry if this sounds stupid to you, but I am living in Austria and reliable sources are scarse over here.

Thanks for your help.

[Tyler Underwood]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

Klaus, you shouldle be able to find what your looking for here. http://www.zipcon.net/~silas/links.htm

[handy.harris]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

Cool! Thanks a lot. Now I have a bunch to read! :-)

[Silas]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

I am looking for a drill manual or the likes which describes the commands given with the saber/sword. I can see officers doing them, but cannot find any written manual about it.

Briefly, instruction does exist for how one handles the sword/sabre. Much of what you see reenactors doing is well entrenched, made up, bunk.

Are there "commands" given for "forward march", "by files left/right", "charge"...

There are no commands for forward, file, charge, halt, fire or whatever. Although common in the reeancting world, you won't find any of it in period manuals. None. Zero. They are all accepted fabrications aka reenactorisms.

When you see some captain in the front rank with his sword pointing forward as a battalion marches forward, it's made up. Same goes for the battalion commander and his staff leading from the front and pointing the direction. It's all made up.

When you see some company commander while a battalion marches by the right flank - why is it always by the right flank? - pointing some the new direction for the company, it's all made up. The men in the second and subsequent companies are smart enough to realize which way to turn without some captain pointing the direction for them.

When you see the dramatic action of some captain dropping his sword to indicate a command to fire, it's all made up. And why do they point a direction? "Shoot this way!" Really? Since his post is behind his company supervising the firing, why is he usually found on the right of his company in the front rank?

Yes, you can see it in the movies, but Hollywood is a poor source for authenticity. Same goes for reenactments. I don't care of some general for life or continual colonel instructs his officers to use the sword for commands. It's all made up.

is there something like "support arms" "right shoulder shift" for the saber/sword?

Now there's the rub. The short answer is, yes. However, I'm skeptical about this methods for holding the sword. The Big Three manuals plus Scott only show the carry, the order, the present and parade rest. That's it.

You can find RSS, support, in place rest, and others if you look in the right places. Elmer Ellsworth's fancy manual comes to mind. Period? Yes. Plain, everyday, common? Nope. I love Ellsworth, but his manual is best digested with a grain of salt rather than with a quart scoop.

Sorry if this sounds stupid to you, but I am living in Austria and reliable sources are scarse over here.

Information is only as far away as your computer. Tyler provided a link to my own links page where you can prowl the actual text and illustrations found in original manuals. While you're there, have a gander at my free booklet of Casey's manual of arms drill from the 1863 manual. I included the sword manual in there and used period illustrations to show how to perform the movements.

In the next week, I intend to add my latest booklet. This one covers Hardee's Revised. I threw the kitchen sink into this booklet when I realized I needed to fill a few extra pages of what otherwise would have been blank pages. All the PEC sword movements are included with some extra info which supplements the standard text. Load on the move? Got it. Left shoulder shift? Huh? Got it. Although I pulled it from Ellsworth, there exists sufficient evidence that this was something actually done with some regularity. It's mentioned in the schools of the battalion and two company divisions are photographed marching during the Grand Review doing this.

Is that a sufficient answer?

[Silas]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

Here's a preview : http://draytons.tripod.com/drill/2Co...Manual1861.pdf This is the entire document made for viewing on a computer screen or quick reference at home.

Once I create a webpage which explains how to print the document in a booklet format, I'll post a link here as well as a more formal announcement regarding same. It looks much better in the booklet format. Besides, you can't really take your computer into the field, but you can take a printed copy of the booklet.

I note it here because of my remarks about the sword manual in this thread. You can view instruction on the manual of the sword in my booklet at pages 46-48.

[john duffer]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

"When you see some captain in the front rank with his sword pointing forward as a battalion marches forward, it's made up. Same goes for the battalion commander and his staff leading from the front and pointing the direction. It's all made up"

But Silas, how on earth will the men know which way is forward otherwise? . I always thought this one of the stupider hollywoodisms/reenactorisms - even if they could all see it how do a thousand men all agree instantly where the sword is pointing? At one time I searched to see where this came from but the only example of pointing with the sword I found had the colonel 40 paces BEHIND the line:


587. The battalion being correctly aligned, and supposed to be the directing one, when the colonel shall wish to march in line of battle, he will give the lieutenant colonel an intimation of his purpose, place himself about forty paces in rear of the color**-file, and face to the front.

588. The lieutenant colonel will place himself a like distance in front of the same file, and face to the colonel, who will establish him as correctly as possible, by signal of the sword, perpendicu**larly to the line of battle opposite to the color-**bearer. The colonel will next, above the heads of the lieutenant and color-bearer, take a point of direction in the field beyond, if a distinct one present itself, exactly in the prolongation of those first two points.

589. The colonel will then move twenty paces farther to the rear, and establish two markers on the prolongation of the straight line passing through the color-bearer and the lieutenant colo**nel; these markers will face to the rear, the first placed about twenty-five paces behind the rear rank of the battalion. and the second at the same distance from the first.

[Silas]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

I always thought this one of the stupider hollywoodisms/reenactorisms

Yup. And yet, it won't go away because it's so ingrained that individual officers think they must do it because all the other officers do it. Maybe this thread will cause a few to question the practice and cease doing it. You'll notice that I said, a few, instead of many.

[Silas]

Re: Infantry Sword "commands"

Instructions for printing the files as a booklet can be found here : http://www.zipcon.net/~silas/Drill/H...sedBooklet.htm Enjoy.