Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

[tater_cuffie]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Yup, I know I made it backwards, I really wasn't even planin on usin it for Civil War stuff..... I actually made it for modern day life just to mess around with, but I made it out of period correct materials such, all handstitched and figured that if I could find documentation, I would wear it. Before I made it, I did consult one of my pards and described what I wanted to do. He said that he's seen ones just like what I described but I'd like to see the original for my self as possible....

[Busterbuttonboy]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Just some paintings from William Sidney Mount. Nothing of extreme significance.

http://www.tfaoi.com/am/2am/2am238.jpg

The Herald in the Country, 1853

http://www.tfaoi.com/am/2am/2am239.jpg

Long Island Farmer Husking Corn, 1833-34

http://www.historylink101.com/art/WilliamSidneyMount/images/522045.jpg

Farm Yard- Cravat Usage

http://www.tfaoi.com/cm/5cm/5cm17.jpg

Younger Fella on the right, shortly returned from hunting

[AZReenactor]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

So you made a cravat based on supposistion and speculation and are now looking for validation for this creation? Seems that is backwards from how this end of the hobby generally tries to do things, don't you think...

Does anybody have reference to a pretied cravat with a button closure? I made one just for fun, and I'd like to know if there are any references for that kind of cravat. I'll post pics of the one I made once I get home....

thanks,

[tater_cuffie]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Does anybody have reference to a pretied cravat with a button closure? I made one just for fun, and I'd like to know if there are any references for that kind of cravat. I'll post pics of the one I made once I get home....

thanks,

[lukegilly13]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

This thread completely slipped my mind, well if I get a minute tomorrow I'll post an example. Nothing extensive mind you, time spent on forums is time spent away from sewing customers clothing.:)

We would appreciate it! I'd love to get the dimensions of an unfolded cravat as well. I sent you a PM with a couple of questions. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge of civilian clothing and general mannor.

[benjclark]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Also some dimensions of period cravats unfolded, to help us make some. I think I already have a black silk square that will work. Any more images of period patterned/colored cravats for wearing mornings around the house ;)?

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

When you get time, I'd love to see this post! I'm interested in how to fold and tie the square folded to a triangle type.

This thread completely slipped my mind, well if I get a minute tomorrow I'll post an example. Nothing extensive mind you, time spent on forums is time spent away from sewing customers clothing.:)

[AZReenactor]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Noah, excellent...

[lukegilly13]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

I'm out of town at the moment, visiting family for the holidays, when I return home I'll post some examples of how to fold and tie some cravats.

Until then, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

When you get time, I'd love to see this post! I'm interested in how to fold and tie the square folded to a triangle type.

[Elaine Kessinger]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

...and I have the pictures to prove it. :D

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

On another forum I was mocked for advocating the simple fact that top hats were not a fancy dress hat worn for special occasions or by members of the "upper-class" and rogue "dandies". That they were worn by all classes in mid-19th century society and were simply another choice of hat a man had before heading out to work in the morning. I said that it wouldn't be uncommon to see men digging ditches in them, for which I was blown off, well smart-asses, here's some proof where's yours:

And I freaked out the visitors at New Market by wearing a cravat and top hat while cutting hay. I think I just stunned the reenactors into silence.

Hey, just another accessory. :D

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Good discussion on Cravats...the visual examples certainly do help...and I too would love to see some steps in how to fold and wear a larger cravat.

I'm out of town at the moment, visiting family for the holidays, when I return home I'll post some examples of how to fold and tie some cravats.

Until then, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

"The shirts worn by men in the 1850's and 1860's fell broadly into three kinds: dress shirts, undershirts, and fireman's shirts....The second kind was the pull-over shirt issued to the soldier and worn widely by the working man. In design it differed little from some styles of dress shirt.... It was actually an undershirt since it was not intended to be worn as an outer garment.... Off duty it was both fashionable and comfortable to unbutton the coat or jacket. This called for a vest." From pp. 67 and 68 of Frederick P. Todd, "American Military Equpage 1851-1872", Vol I, Company of Military Historians, Providence, R.I. (1974)

Firstly, Todd's book was written on military practices...and while it may include some pertinant information on civilian life, it should probably not be used for such a purpose.

Secondly, what I see in the quoted verse from Todd's book does not address what was considered underwear...it is simply a classification of types of shirts seen used by soldiers.

Still this excerpt does not address what is/is not proper...but simply states that this "pull-over shirt...(keep in mind we're talking issued to soldiers) was not intended to be the outer-garment..." From this we must also understand that in a military context, this is most certainly true, as the intent of the issued shirt was to serve as an internal layer, because they'd also be issued some form of coat/jacket.

Just a few thoughts...

Good discussion on Cravats...the visual examples certainly do help...and I too would love to see some steps in how to fold and wear a larger cravat.

Paul B.

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

From pp. 67 and 68 of Frederick P. Todd, "American Military Equpage 1851-1872", Vol I, Company of Military Historians, Providence, R.I. (1974)

Thank you for providing a source. I am curious to know where the authors got their documentation; ie, what sort of primary source mentions that shirts are considered underwear? In all of the etiquette manuals I have read, I've still not come across any reference to it.

Again, looking at some of the photos and paintings above, fellows seem pretty casual about posing in shirtsleeves, even as clerks, and some of them are in fact wearing coats, but no vests. :)

[Ian McWherter]

Re: Cravats Worn by the Working Class.

Is the gent with the "high trousers" actually wearing "overalls without a bib"? We had a discussion last summer on such garments.

I've seen photographs of such garments, but these don't appear to be them at all. They have a fly front, are made from a stripped material and the height of the trousers isn't unusual at all.

The man standing to the right of the lady is most likely wearing a pair of these bib-less overalls: