The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Hallo!

IMHO, yes, it IS cheaper in the long run NOT to pay for Italain workmen to do things you are going to undo or redo anyways.

However, "assembling" and "de-farbing" "kits" generally has a prerequisite of the "kit-builder" having a few necessary tools, the skill and knowledge to use them, and a basic understanding of what the "de-farb" work entails and ow to get there.

The other factor is that you would still have to pay a "service" to have the barrel proofs and stock cartouches that are missing added.

So, while I recommend kit building, or "de-farbing" already used guns that have taken the "depreciation," such work is for some but not universally for everyone.

I am reminded of an old friend of mine who was a barrel and stock maker, and decided to become a custom gun "builder." For the first few years, he was one of the few lads I knew who could take $600 worth of parts and build a $200 gun.

Curt

[lukegilly13]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

This thread is HUGE so please excuse if this has been posted. I was considering defarbing my own springfield (with little gunsmith experience) and I decided against it. Here's why....I can order a "kit rifle" from Euroarms (enfield costing around $350, springfield $375) and the stock comes unfinished. I can stain with whatever I want. I can actually order the barrel unfinished and do that myself as well. The bands are unfinshed and need to be "smoothed" as the edges are raw. Would this be easier to defarb? The problem of non-period markings (in metal parts) would still be there...but tremendous time and money saved on the stock and bands...right?

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Hallo!

Or oxidizes further to "plum" then to "brown."

Curt

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

The real test of bluing is under bands and under the barrel, especially the breech area. It is next to impossible to really know whether a barrel was rust blued the old ways unless you get into the hidden crevaces that would not have been handled. Also, when wanting to know if a lock is/was color-cased, you need to look behind it where it was never worn.

The breech area of the musket, back where the prrofs and gauge marks are was roughly used by cap blasts and collected a lot of corrossive soot that was not usually cleaned away well. Pits formed (see picture) which collected and held even more soot and moisture, sweat and acidic hand oils. No bluing, especially the old mercuric rusts can stand up to that treatment long before it turns gray, a color we now call patina.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Have you seen this piece in-person? This photograph seems to indicate that the bluing is not intact.


The article makes not mention of the presence/absence of bluing.

John,

It seems I have put my foot in my mouth...having made the assumption from the first pic (and not a very good one) that the blueing was in tact...that said, the second image (which you posted) shows that the area of the barrel with proof marks is completely devoid of any blueing.

I still highly recommend the article, even if my lack of attention to detail (blindness) on the pics, lead me to make such a bold statement (about the blueing being intact).

Paul

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Have you seen this piece in-person? This photograph seems to indicate that the bluing is not intact.


The article makes not mention of the presence/absence of bluing.

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

On July 2 or 3, 1863, Pvt. John Fallin of the 23rd Virginia Infantry lost or discarded his rifle during the fighting on Culp’s Hill, near the sleepy little town of Gettysburg, Pa. More than 140 years later, his Enfield rifle-musket, a veteran of the battle, plays a key role in remembering one of the most important battles in American history. American Rifleman

I highly recommend this article on Pvt. Fallin's Enfield Rifle. This appeared in the American Rifleman, the NRAs National Publication.

The rifle is now in the possession of the Gettysburg NPS Museum Collection. Interesting to note, that after seeing service, and being tossed on the battlefield, it has retained most of its original blueing.

Link to article: http://23rdva.netfirms.com/J%20A%20F...in%20rifle.htm


Paul

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Yup.;) They were made blued, but after issue who knows. I tend to think they remained blued mostly but that old mercuric bluing wore off rapidly from sweaty hands, abrassion on the ground or tree bark or grime-encrusted wool, and from cleaning with scouring action. Wearing away rust bluing turns a light shade of brown and then goes gray. Some commanders evidently did tell the men to strip the bluing to make them match the bright guns, but that would have been for an individual officer to decide. And, when stripping the bluing this would have been a half/arsed job. These guns being sold with hammers, barrel bands, screw heads, and sights all 100% polished bright are probably more farbby than the "Euroarms" that is stamped on the barrel. The soldier simply would not have been able to perfectly polish the many nooks and crannies around the hammer neck ot the rear or front sight, nor would he have cared enough to polish the heads of the screws.

[LibertyHallVols]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

So after all of this discussion as to whether enfields were blued or not, has there been a final consensus? Perhaps some during the war were blued and others were stripped due to unit commanders, etc?

To be brief and overly simplistic in answering all of the above: Yes :tounge_sm

[stannie1950]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

So after all of this discussion as to whether enfields were blued or not, has there been a final consensus? Perhaps some during the war were blued and others were stripped due to unit commanders, etc? Just an idea.

David Green

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

The one recently owned and sold by Mr. Prince at College Hill Arsenal is my "model" for the Bond gun I do. I am doing another one right now for Mr. Barry. I copied my stamp from the one in the Prince collection while I was doing all-night security at a militaria show where he had "foolishly" left his collection in my tender loving care.:D Lots of measurements, digital pics and pencil rubbings.

[FlaYankee]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Wow;:)
James could you post some pics of your EP Bond Enfield. I imagine it looks like this one;

http://www.collegehillarsenal.com/shop/product.php?productid=16417&cat=261&page=1

Kindest Regards;

Re: Todd Watts Defarbed Enfield

You are certainly welcome.:)

[50th VA Corporal]

Todd Watts Defarbed Enfield

For any of those AC members who have not had the opportunity to appreciate one of AC member Todd Watts' defarbed Enfields I can attest first hand his quality of work. I ordered my Armi Sport defarbed Enfield through Blockade Runner (BRI).

I had questions about the defarb and emailed Todd through the private message forum and he was quick with response and answered any and all of my questions and concerns. BRI informed me that from time of order placement to time of delivery was four weeks, but I received my defarbed Enfield in two weeks.

Todd did a special upgrade to my Enfield. Instead of the normal BSAT (British Small Arms Trade) stamp on the stock he used a new E. Bond stamp as the maker - so I got something a bit different than his normal defarb.

Having it arriving so quickly I had an opportunity to participate in a living history for a group of teen school kids where I was giving a session on the musket in particular - and it was, for the first time, I had the opportunity to do that session with an authenticly correct Enfield reproduction rather than one of a lesser correct reproduction.

Thanks Todd for the great work! I heartily encourage others to experience your craftsmanship. I look forward to using it next re-enactment season.

James T. Lemon
50th VA Corporal

[FlaYankee]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

I believe this is what Mass Vol. was talking about. This was found via Geoff Waldens article on Enfields and he listed this as someone who has P53 parts;

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/RIFLE__MUSKET_PARTS___ACCESSORIES.html

http://www.peterdyson.co.uk/acatalog/RIFLE__MUSKET_PARTS___ACCESSORIES.html

Kindest Regards;:)