The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

Sorry I just read this about the Blockade Runner's Enfield worms. I noted the same thing, that they are too large. I pointed it out to Jerry and Phil there a few weeks ago and they were actually shocked. They've sold many of them but were not aware themselves how large the base is until I showed them on a musket off the rack. They do not have much need anymore to clean muskets since neither does much reenacting these days and the gear they do use is of their older stock. They just had had no reason to try the worms with patches in barrels so they were unaware of the issue. To make mine work, I chucked it into my lathe and shaved several thousands of an inch off the base and even off the prongs' outside diameter. However, this should not have to be done when you buy one meant to fit a .58". They are aware of the problem and are working with their supplier to resolve the size issue. In the meantime, I have noted that they have an exact replica worm available that they had copied and I bought 1 of those. It is precise and loose enough in the bore to allow a good sized patch with ease. They sell those so if you want to buy one of these tools, tell them to swap the worm with the narrower one copied from an original. If you have one of the larger ones, it is a stout piece and you can use it, but when sitting around camp one afternoon you need to take a file to it and just shave it all around. Don't get into a hurry and if it takes a couple of hours on Saturday and Sunday don't get too hot about it. It is easier to do when attached to your rammer. Believe me, I have done this to several in camp for other guys in the unit that bought the big ones. Figure it this way, it was probably similar to what soldiers back then had to do with some mis-sized parts of all sorts of gear issued to them. It can be explained to spectators in camp that way as well. Besides, it'll keep you from drinking too much that day!:D

[Cyclesmith]

Re: Musket Defarbing

Pards,

Does anybody have an opinion on who is best at defarbing a musket?

Does anybody know of anyone that could defarb it over the course of an event weekend?

I think like anything it is a matter of experience and preference. Personally I like Lodgewood Mfg... well known in defarbing and many people (even in this forum) have used them. Personally I use them because I live only 30 mins away (please note being a Midwesterner I measure distance in time...LOL) and that makes it even easier to deal with them because I can pick-up my orders when done and they frequent many of the local events here, which is nice. So if you can find a person that does quality defarbing close to you I highly recommend it... if not... bite the bullet and pay for shipping.

As far as time-line to do a defarbing project it depends on the level of defarbing you want to do. Without knowing the type of musket you have I am speaking generally, noting that most often people are defarbing Enfields. If your looking at doing a really basic defarb...aka stripping the blueing, replacing the bands and swivels, strip the finish etc… you can do that yourself with the purchase of a few parts and a couple of hours of work on the weekend. If your looking at a full defarb… replacing the lock, band, swivels, rear sight and screw escutcheons… recontour the stock… relocate the modern marks and replace with period stamps…etc. your talking a couple hundred bucks (assuming you already own the musket) and a lot of work that should only be done by a pro. Typically I expect to wait about a month. My last musket I ordered took longer because the musket had to be ordered and a fairly extensive defarbing just after that… in all took about 3 months to get it… but well worth it. It really all depends if they have what you need in stock, and how many other project their working on.

[Rob]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I purchased one of the Y-shaped tools from Track of the Wolf. My advice? Don't bother.

It won't fit in the cartridge box's tool pouch, and my musket wrench, oil bottle, worm, and cone pick together don't weigh as much as this monstrosity does. Plus, the screw which secures the cone pick to the main body goes into the oil cavity, so, unless you want to take the trouble to seal the threads with JB Weld, you cannot carry oil in it. It now has a permanent place in my toolbox - at home.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Hallo!

The first "Y" combination tool was the Parker-Hale Pattern No. 1 Sergeant's Wrench (Combination Tool), which IMHO was no up to the standards of the Parker-Hale "Enfield' line.
IMHO, it was costume jewelry and not intended to be functional- just decorative.

Historically, the Pattern No 1 Privates', and Pattern Number 1 Sergeants' Wrench were roughly 1855-1858. (This gets messy as the Pattern dates seem to overlap as there was no apparent Pattern No. 2 and the Pattern No. 3's ("T" tool with dismounting arm) also came out in 1855.

Someone, I forget, made a semi-decent Pattern No. 1 Privates' tool (I recall) about ten plus years ago or so. But it was color case hardened, which could be stripped and oil-quenched blackened and a leather "gasket" or "seal" made for the oil resevoir....

And yes, as shared, the "Y" tool I see sold now suffers from too narrow a screw driver blade and arm, as well as an undersized wiper.
(And yes, the Italian repro "Enfields" seem to suffer from too narrow a screw slot on their screws, particularly the lock plate screws... IMHO, it is better to widen the slot, than narrow the screwdriver blade).

Curt

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I've had one of the Blockade Runner Y-shaped Enfields tools for about three years now... and have noted exactly the same thing that Mr. Lehmann did. As it came in the mail, the screwdriver thing didn't fit any screw on my ArmiSport Enfield, nor my pard's EuroArms, nor my other pard's original Enfields. The edge of the blade was simply cast too wide, and required a bit of work with a bastard file to thin it down enough to engage the screw slots.

The wiper was sized just enough to slide snugly down the bore, but will not fit wit a cloth patch of any size.

The cone wrench did work.

Don't try to keep your armor oil in the little bottle, unless you want to add a little extra water-proofing to certain spots of your clothing.

Beyond that, it did look cool as all heck... I just need to carry a separate wiper and cone pick in addition to the "issue" tool.

I don't mind doing a little re-work to get the tool to work properly such as sculpting the screwdriver blades....but, I would have a problem carrying such a non-functional item (if the oil resevoir leaks, the wiper's too big...)

Any recommendations for a tool, whose resevoir seals properly and has a functional wiper?

Paul

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I've had one of the Blockade Runner Y-shaped Enfields tools for about three years now... and have noted exactly the same thing that Mr. Lehmann did. As it came in the mail, the screwdriver thing didn't fit any screw on my ArmiSport Enfield, nor my pard's EuroArms, nor my other pard's original Enfields. The edge of the blade was simply cast too wide, and required a bit of work with a bastard file to thin it down enough to engage the screw slots.

The wiper was sized just enough to slide snugly down the bore, but will not fit wit a cloth patch of any size.

The cone wrench did work.

Don't try to keep your armor oil in the little bottle, unless you want to add a little extra water-proofing to certain spots of your clothing.

Beyond that, it did look cool as all heck... I just need to carry a separate wiper and cone pick in addition to the "issue" tool.

[yipper]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Gents,

For those of you who have been able to compare the Blockade Runner’s “Enfield musket private’s tool”(private’s tri-armed nipple wrench) with an original, how does the size of the worm compare?

I have one of the early production models. The screwdriver blade was too large to fit any of the Enfield screws and I had to file it down and re-blue it. The “pricker” or vent prick retaining screw was massively over tightened and had to be loosened.

The base of the worm on the reproduction is .55 in (1.4 cm) in diameter and .49 in (1.25 cm) in height. The diameter of the base provides a fairly snug fit within the bore and prevents using a patch in combination with the worm for cleaning the barrel. A few of us discussed this situation a while back (pre-latest crash) in regards to the difference in official firearm cleaning techniques between the British and American manuals, but the lack of access to an original to verify dimensions precluded any sort of conclusion.

So, can any of you provide measurements from an original?

Thanks,

geoffrey lehmann

[Civilwardude22]

Re: The Monster Enfield Defarbing Thread

I bought an Enfield from blockade runner and the defarb was excellent. Call them and ask for Todd


John Ramone

[FlaYankee]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I purchased a fine Enfield Tool from Tim Prince a couple of years back when they were advertised on this board. Before that I was using a Parker Hale tool that I purchased from Lodgewood many years before.
Tim's tool is dead on accurate and functional, which I was extremely happy about.
The Parker Hale tool, and very soft metal is no longer used by this party, and is sitting in a box somewhere.
A pard in my unit saw me using the TP 'privates" tool in the field and showed me the one he purchased from Blockade Runner. Nearly identical, except he kept having problems with the soft metal on his. Needless to say he was quite p.o.'d.
Nice to see that Tim made a tool that was accurate and functional!:tounge_sm
Hopefully Blockade Runner has fixed the problem with their gun tool.
Kindest Regards

[Stonewall_Greyfox]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

I wonder...if the T-shaped tools are more appropriate over the Y-shaped tools, why haven't we pushed to have these produced? What sort of cost would be involved in producing this?

I am not advocating doing this myself, but would the community support the developement of the "percieved" more common tool type? If so, who would we work with in this project? Understanding we would need an original to copy, someone to produce the tool, and the capital to back it up.

Paul

[MassVOL]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

Thanks for all the comments.
I checked out Track the Wolf and they actually have two versions of the Sergeants tool, one that is called Parker Hale and one that is just called a Combo tool. Both are "y" shaped and the same picture is used for both. The reply I got back was that the Parker Hale tool was one of those that were produced in the 70's when Parker Hale made their guns. I have heard great things about the Parker Hale Enfield, but not so much feedback on their tool.

As for the style of tool perhaps someone more read in on the McRae papers could comment. The Horse Soldier has been known to sell both types, but with what frequency of the type I don’t know.

[CJ Roberts]

Re: Anyone have pics of JRA Enfields they can share?

Craig: You've sparked my curiosity. You mentioned that the problems with the Armisport's bolster go beyond cosmetics. Having only snapped a cap and not yet fired my Armisport Enfield, I am curious if you were referring to performance as well as cosmetic issues.

Also, while one could thin the snail section of the bolster, it appears that the "tail of the snail" extends too far into the "drum" area immediately below the nipple. In other words, while there is too much metal on part of the bolster, there is too little in other areas. Very frustrating.

[27thNCdrummer]

Musket Defarbing

Pards,

Does anybody have an opinion on who is best at defarbing a musket?

Does anybody know of anyone that could defarb it over the course of an event weekend?

[BrianHicks]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

The 'Y' shaped Sergeants Combination tool was the first model of the Sgts Combination Tool and was produced for the 1853 Enfield from 1853 to 1855, then was replaced by the 'T' shaped tool. The 'T' shaped tool went through a few Models, with each progressive model being produced with a slightly shorter central shaft piece.

With the 'Y' shaped tool being produced for only two years, and that being at the very beginning of the 1853 production, I would dare to say that it's presence over here during the Civil War might have been very limited, while the 'T' shaped tool would have been far more prevalent.

The problem is of course... no one is reproducing eh 'T' shaped tool. Only the 'Y' shaped tool is available as a reproduction.

[Craig L Barry]

Re: Enfield Combination Tool

The one pictured on the Track of the Wolf website looks like the one Regt QM has. Y shaped. Note the tiny worm...that's the one.