Cleaning My Weapon

[rick atwood]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Layton,

Did you buy the ramrod from Lodgewood? If you did it should fit. If not, an easy enough fix would be to gently sand the channel in the points that stick. Start with 150 grit and then finish with 220. You can sand with a dowel to keep it as precise as possible. It may just be the first point that is causing all the problem.

The problem probably stems from swelling due to staining.

Hope this helps,

Rick Atwood

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Hallo!

It can be hard to impossible to diagnose the patient without seeing him..

But let me two real dumb questions first off, please.

Which model/type "Springfiled" is it?" Meaning, by any chance, are you using a M1863 ramrod on a M1861?

And Lodgewood's parts? Are they repro-original parts for work on originals or custom-builts, or are they replacement repro parts for repro Italian/Japanese Springfields?

Curt

[flattop32355]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Have you tried just loosening the barrel band screws a bit, to see if the rammer goes down easier?

[Silas]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Knowing the model might help. Before someone jumps on Bernie and his answer about loosening the screws, here's a photo of a '63 with the screws on the upper band:



I suspect the Springfield at issue here is an ever so common '61. Had it been a '42, '63 or a Colt, the original poster would likely have mentioned it.

[26th NC]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Thanks for all of the tips. I take all reasonable advice, so nobody here on my end is is juming on or criticizing anyone. I thought of the dowel and sandpaer, and even of taking it back to Lodgewood. But did not want to spend more money, and wanted to see other options before proceeding. So to answer questions; it is a Lodgewwod repro for an Armisport 1861 Springfield. Tried loosening the screws, no help. I will get a doweling and carefully sand the channel first. Thank you for all the advice. Curt, understand seeing the patient, trying to treat the sick over a phone is like trying to command a military unit by cell phone, can't be done. Must be seen, not heard. Again, thanks to everyone.

Layton Pennington

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Hallo!

Thanks!

You can also pick up a rat tail file from the hardware store slightly "larger" than either the ramrod or the current existing ranrod channel.
You can bend the file's tang up at 90 degrees with a propane torch to make a more effective tool otherwise the file can only be used at a sharp angle and then only the very tip will cut wood. With a bent tang, the file can "lay" in the ramrod channel and be worked straight forward and back, up and down, the channel.

If the problem is, or also is, the ramrod "hole" in the sotck, the rat tail file tool can be used to enlarge it (but it is harder to accomplish). That usually may require a ramrod drill to bore it out. They are a drill bit brazed to a steel rod. These can be purchased at some blackpowder shops, or one can weld/braze up if you have the tools. They can be tricky to use to keep the bit from walking sideways and emerging somewhere on the stock.
(IMHO, it is best to let someome skilled/practiced do it, or go really slow and back the drill in-and-out every inch or so going in.

I have some stories regardign lads who did their own work.
1. One tried to enlarge the ramrod hole in an M1841 repro with a wood screw. (Split the stock)
2. Two tried drilling it out on Springfields, and had the bit come out on the side and bottom of the stock.
3. And when I was just starting out, I had no tools or knowledge of how to use them, and heated a coat hanger red hot with a propane torch to burn the hole larger. Surprisingly, it worked, but my apartment stunk like woodsmoke for weeks and the gun always smelled like charcoal..

Curt

[Gary of CA]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Curt gives good advice.

You may want to drill out the ramrod hole in the stock. As Curt said, you attached the drill bit onto a longer rod. Cut a small piece of wood and drill it through with the same diameter drill. Cut it in such that one part can be placed slightly (say 1") before the entry hole. This will help keep the drill rod aligned.

Line up the drill with the stock and mark off on the rod (near the muzzle) the depth you want to go. It's almost the same procedure to check whether a muzzle loading gun is loaded.

Now, when you drill, go in only 1/2" and then pull it back. Allow the chips to come out. Then reinsert and go another 1/2" before pulling back out. Repeat until you get to your mark. The reason why you only go 1/2" is to allow those chips to clear out. The chips can cause a drill bit to drift off to an angle.

If you're unwilling to do it yourself, any competent flintlock builder can do it for you. Don't scrap the stock.

For those interested in learning more, the National Muzzle Loading Rifle Association offers 9 day classes in May/June at Bowling Green, Kentucky on how to build flintlocks. Conner Prairie (Fishers, Indiana) also holds classes but they're only 5 days long.

[Third Mainer]

Re: Fouled up Springfield

Just give it to me....I'll even pay postage:wink_smil :wink_smil
Mike Pearson

[brown]

Cleaning a flintlock

Recently purchased an 1816 reproduction, and before I fire it, I need to know how to clean it. In particular, what is different from cleaning a percussion lock piece? Obviously the vent cannot be closed in the same way (that has been my first observation). Thought I'd see what you expierenced flintlock owners have to say.
Thanks,
Lindsey Brown

[rick atwood]

Re: Cleaning a flintlock

Lindsey,

I clean my flintlocks much in the same manner as my CW era weapons. In the field I simply plug the vent with a round toothpick and run hot water down the barrel until the water comes out clear. I follow up with dry patches until dry and then run a lightly oiled patch down the barrel. I finish by cleaning the vent and lightly reoiling the outside of the barrel/lock.

At home after an event, I brush the barrel with a caliber appropriate brush. Then I plug the vent with a round toothpick and add about 4-5 ounces of hot water, placing a tompion in the muzzle. After aggitating the barrel, I remove the tompion and pour the water out. I repeat this until the water comes out clear. After this I run a patch saturated with Knights e-z clean or Thompsons # 13 bore cleaner. I repeat this until the patches are clean. I then repeat the hot water treatment. After that I run dry patches down the barrel until dry. Next, I work on cleaning the vent as well as the lock and frizzen. I finish by running a patch of bore butter down the barrel as well as lightly re-oiling all iron/steel surfaces.

Be careful when you pour the water down the barrel so as not to get any on the stock or the underside of the barrel. Also, keep oil off of your flint and make sure your frizzen and pan are completely dry of oil when you're finished.

All of this is a modern method of cleaning and is done without dismounting the barrel from the stock. All of my barrels are pinned. That all being said, there are a host of flintlock enthusiasts on this board that can provide period correct cleaning methods.

Hope this helps,

Rick Atwood

[Tom Ezell]

Re: Cleaning a flintlock

Recently purchased an 1816 reproduction, and before I fire it, I need to know how to clean it. In particular, what is different from cleaning a percussion lock piece? Obviously the vent cannot be closed in the same way (that has been my first observation). Thought I'd see what you expierenced flintlock owners have to say.
Thanks,
Lindsey Brown

I've been packing a Model 1816/1822 for about the past six years as part of my early-war Confederate impression, and more recently in regressing to the War with Mexico. I've campaigned with it at Wilson's Creek, and a lot of smaller events between now and then, as well as driving some of the local SCV guys nuts by showing up at the odd memorial service with a pretty good MSG impression and my rocklock.

There's not a lot of difference in maintaining your flintlock than from a perscussion weapon, other than cleaning and maintaining the lock itself. And just think, you don't have to worry about the availability of percussion caps any more ;-) You should have your ramrod, a musket wrench/screwdriver, a proper .69 caliber wiper, vent pick and pan brush, and you're good to go. It's also a really good idea to keep a little piece of rag in a handy place while you're in action, so as to be able to frequently wipe down your frizzen and pan. The flash from the powder pan makes the Model 1816 a lot "dirtier" weapon to work with, so you do need to pay a lot more attention to keeping your frizzen clean as well as the striking edge of your flint.

Field cleaning of the weapon isn't much different than for your Enfield. A small twig can be used as a temporary plug for the vent, while you clean the core with hot water and swab the fouling out with your ramrod & wiper. Once the bore is clean, use a damp cloth to clean the powder fouling off the lockplate, pan, cock, and the area around the breech. Once cleaned and dry, I apply a light coating of Bore Butter (TM) to the exposed metal parts to prevent rust, or you can use the lubricant of your choice. Like any other bright-finished weapon, you need to be aggressive about preventing rust, and the heavier exterior fouling from the flintlock tends to make these weapons a little more prone to rusting if you don't stay on top of things or better yet, ahead of them.

Some key lessons learned over the years:

1) Keep your powder (cartridges) and your firelock dry... “Secure arms” and a tompion works under moderate conditions, but beware of when the wooden tompion swells and gets stuck in the bore and if it rains long enough, there will be a breakthrough point between the water and your oilcloth.

2) The idea of loading and priming, and then marching/double-quicking all over the place bears a certain fascination when you realize that there isn’t much holding that half-cocked flint off your frizzen and the powder thereunder. At first opportunity I fabricated myself a frizzen stall and got industrious about its use.

3) Spare flints are a must... you can only “flick your Bic” so many times before you’re out of sparks. It is always a good idea to fit a fresh flint before you go into a battle, lest you find yourself in a bad situation with a dull flint that won’t spark. Accounts of the Missouri State Guard and the Arkansas troops on the eve of battle at Wilson’s Creek mention their fitting fresh flints to their weapons and checking the spark.

I bought a pack of a dozen of DGW’s “English musket flints” when I ordered my M1816 (flint not included, btw, when you order one of these). Other good accessories to buy at the same time are the little vent pick and pan whisk that you can run through your button hole so as to have it there when you need it (W.K. Osman is an excellent source for this), and a small leather wallet for carrying spare flints. Keep your musket tool at hand as well.

4) I installed and used a flash guard at Wilson’s Creek out of respect for the event rules, but didn’t notice a lot of difference with it except that it made it a lot more difficult to clean around the pan and frizzen spring. I’ve since removed it and put it back in the possibles box, since the primary use of my ’16 is living histories... at least until the next Pea Ridge, Shiloh or Fort Donelson comes along. I am not real fond of flashguards, both from the authenticity standpoint but mostly from the fact that it makes it a lot harder to clean around the pan and frizzen. Flintlocks are a lot messier than percussion guns when it comes to powder residue all over everything, and you need to be scrupulous about your cleaning in order to keep it functioning. I do carry the guard in my pocket though, in case the eventmeisters require their use.

5.) Carry a piece of rag in a handy place, and be sure to wipe off the edge of your flint and your frizzen frequently, at least after every three or four shots. Enough gunk can build up there in even a minor skirmish to make it hard to get a reliable spark. Cleanliness of your firelock is next to godliness, in my small opinion.

Likewise, the rag is useful to wipe off unwanted moisture, whether it be dew, mist, or sweat... Moisture dampens the powder in your pan, and causes misfires as well as excessive residue in the pan and on the frizzen and other lock parts.

Get out and practice with your flinter... a lot. Get intimate with General Scott’s drill manual, practice rolling some good .69 cartridges, and using them. Most of the cold chills that reenacting officers get about flintlocks appearing in the ranks from time to time arise from ignorance... after all there’s a whole hobby of Revolutionary War reenacting out there that uses nothing but flintlocks, and their safety record appears to be as good if not a lot better than ours.

Scott’s drill (“Load in Twelve Times”) calls for priming from the cartridge. This is one of the reasons that the powder charge for the old pumpkin slingers was 110 grains, and powder tended to be something like today’s FFFg. It works pretty well once you’ve practiced a bit, although if you’re in a mixed company with percussion weapons it looks odd when you cast about and prime first, then bring the weapon to the “Load” position while the percussion guys are doing exactly the opposite. This uniformity business may be why some folks prefer to prime from a small flask. Most safety officers look at the priming flask to be the same sort of potential grenade in the same manner as a powder horn, so I stick with Gen’l Scott’s book, with no more than a cartridge’s worth of powder out of the box or the jacket pocket at any one time.

To load the thing, you tear the cartridge open with your teeth and “dust” the priming pan with the cartridge, shaking a few grains of powder into it. Snap the frizzen (the striker plate) shut on the pan, and swing the musket down in front of you to the “Load” position. Turn the cartridge open end down and pour the powder into the barrel. Then, turn the cartridge tube open end up or leave it the way it is (either direction works) and drop it down the barrel. The cartridge paper acts as your “patch”. There is no separate patch in military firing. The ball is significantly undersized so as to facilitate loading in a fouled barrel if necessary, so the cartridge paper literally keeps the ball from rolling back down the barrel. Tamp the charge with the rammer and you’re ready to go. Follow the manual exactly and you are practicing good firearms safety.

The Flintlock musket drill, LOAD IN 12 TIMES goes like this (see Scott’s “Infantry Tactics”, 1835, paras 189-207):
1. Load
2. Open Pan
3. Handle Cartridge
4. Tear Cartridge
5. Prime
6. Shut Pan
7. Cast About
8. Charge Cartridge
9. Draw Rammer
10. Ram Cartridge
11. Return Rammer
12. Shoulder Arms

Note that the Drill Manual has you doing the OPPOSITE of what most live-fire muzzleloading clubs practice, e.g. priming the pan before you charge the bore. Again, this is because the military weapons loaded from paper cartridges, and priming flasks weren't issued with the weapons.

As for blanks for my M1816 flinter, I usually load 85 or 90 grains of FFFg. About 5 to 10 grains of that goes in the pan, the rest down the bore.

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Cleaning a flintlock

Echo everything said above, and that in high humidity, you may want to wipe out the pan occasionaly. I had a Pedersoli 2nd Ptn Brown Bess, and would sometimes get moisture in the pan, on a dry day. I also second the round toothpick in the vent. It may not apply here, but a trick me and my Trekking buddies used when I was doing colonial in Alaska (dont ask ) was placing a grouse tailquill in the touchhole of a loaded and primed flinter when in camp. This worked as a block and as a signal that the weapon was loaded. This was on weekend jonts in the woods, not public demos, and yes, the weapons were loaded live, both as game getters and in the case of the big bores (.62 and up) as the bear deterant.

[Jeff Prechtel]

Re: Cleaning a flintlock

Get yourself a bag of tow, for use as a cleaning material,
that works the best, as well as using a brush or a worm.

I've found that not pouring water down the barrel and
just using some wet tow, and cleanin out the barrel
works better, that way you don't have to worry about
water seeping down underneath the barrel.

Also make sure to take off the lock and give the inside
of the lock a thorough cleaning also, otherwise you get
powder and rust build up over time, this will eventually
lead to lock malfunction. If you haven't had one before,
flintlocks are a lot of fun, as you'll find out!

Best regards,
Jeff P

[BobbyHughes]

Re: Cleaning a flintlock

If you haven't had one before,
flintlocks are a lot of fun, as you'll find out!

I gotta second that one! First time I fired a buddy's Jaeger, I caught "rock-lock" fever... had to sell em, but I miss that ol Brown Bess and my .50 Tennessee rifle.

[Curt Schmidt]

Re: Cleaning a flintlock

Hallo!

Having done both for many years, I have come to find that the major difference between cleaning a caplock and a flintlock is- that the caplock squirts up, and the flintlock squirts sideways.
;)

Curt